Obviously you have other commitments now. And obviously you would know better what to expect in regards to your sales than I would. Maybe I’m just colored by my enjoyment of Super-F*ckers.

As for your interpretation of copyright, that’s as accurate an assessment as they come, from what I can see.

Really, I will always be grateful for that.

I do happen to believe that the copyright is doomed, it was a little experiment that will end up being just a blip in the history of man. It’s already nearly defunct in practice (no one thinks twice of stealing music, for instance) and it’s just a matter of time until the law catches up with the general perception that everything should be shared freely. Which would make the notion of creator ownership or company ownership a complete non-issue.

(I’m not saying this is right or wrong, just that it’s the direction mankind seems to be headed in.)

Yeah, honesty and forthrightness really is a bad buisness model. As a creator I much prefer to be patted on the head an assured that everything is just swell.

In the first place, such a public lament that “I’ve wasted 20 years” tends to cast a pall over the company. You just don’t say shit like that until after you’ve quit or retired.

In the second place, he can reassure his current creators that nothing will change, and they can believe him, but the next batch of undiscovered geniuses are more likely to pass him by now.

Of the three deals I can tell you that I definitely prefer the last, but I learned a lot by working with other creators and published their properties not because I wanted to make money on ancilliary rights, but because I thought they were great pieces of work and wanted to help my friends get their books out there. Many of the creators I’ve published are people I’ve worked with and known a long time and I prefer NOT to get into how much I’ve spent and why I should perhaps get more… nevertheless I fully understand why other publishers have a 50/50 or 35/65 take-it-or-leave-it deal on all rights relating to creators’ properties. Publishers have to think about their future as well as yours.

The costs involved in running a publishing company are ridiculous. Promotion alone can often cost more than your print bill. Establishing a presence at a show like Comic-con can cost a small publisher THOUSANDS of dollars, and if you make a thousand dollars a day selling product you might just break even… However, very few publishers can make that kind of money without a broad range of product, a few high ticket items and three or four employees managing the booth — and, hey, costs of shipping, hotels and floor space just doubled… now you have to make $2,000 a day!

Chris Staros once told me that he attended 18 shows a year to build the TOP SHELF name, and for that kind of dedication, man, Chris and Brett DESERVE a piece of the action! Without companies like TOP SHELF, PLANET LAR/AiT and IDW there’d be a whole boatful of creators who’d have sunk without trace. Like so many other former self publishing creators (Paul Grist, Robert Kirkman, Tom Scioli), I’ve taken my book (ELEPHANTMEN) to IMAGE where it can enjoy better exposure, better Diamond discounts (and storage!), better credit terms and unit prices with printers, overship opportunities and cross promotion with other titles. Having learned all about the ups and downs of self-publishing, I’m happy to give IMAGE their monthly fees and a cut of trade paperback sales.

Personally, I’m amazed that Dan Vado has stuck it out for so long — he’s a better man than I am, Gunga Din, and I salute him! Even so, I’m not AT ALL surprised that he’d do things differently now. After just three years publishing other creators’ properties, I’m already doing things differently!

Rich!

Eh, I was going to type more, but I have to get a bunch of comics and graphic novels to the printer. It’s like it’s my job or something.

That said, Dan’s got to recognize that the “rules” by which the comics industry has operated for so long are in their final stages of breaking down, and that if one wishes to be a successful businessman, even in comics, you’ve got to rely less on bonhomie and more on contract decisions based upon product evaluations in the context of market research. However, if he wants to continue as an innovator and caterer to the comics zeitgeist, and I hope he does, he has to accept the inevitable risk of little if any reward that comes with the territory. Somehow others in his position have been able to balance these factors, encouraging loyalty and respecting creators’ rights while also putting out products that are safer bets.

But don’t grouse about not being adequately compensated or recognized for making the almost purely virtuous choice. You don’t make that choice and expect to profit by it; if you’re lucky, you might die with the coins for your eyes.

I think in the end all Dan is saying here is that he’s tired of other publishers using him as an unpaid talent scout — but I also think he still has a greater loyalty rate than most publishers, because he’s a good guy to work with. I have four full graphic novels with Tokyopop now, but I still miss my time with SLG.

If the company can support itself AND talented creators out there, what is there to be unhappy about?

That’s not to say that all creator owned projects were detrimental to the bottom line. But far too many books cost the publishers money and there is no return. As happened many times, if a creator/title got popular, it moved elsewhere. Can’t really blame the creator if someone starts wagging money in front of them and I only had animosity towards one creator over that but it was due to different reasons.

Yes, there is value in doing some creator owned books. With Caliber, certainly it was with Moebius, Dicks, UN Force, etc. But I think Dan is mainly referring (and not trying to put words into his mouth) unproven talent.

All in all, creator books have their place but the point is, it is not a good business model for a publisher. I know that I would never again do a publishing company structured around that concept.

I don’t know about the decision to go digital on new releases. I understand it, but not sure how it will work out. It certainly won’t lose money except for the creators’ time but that doesn’t seem to be a concern for the 1000’s of people doing webcomics. With the Caliber library, I put the old stuff online just to keep it available but as far as new stuff, only one issue of a trade to serve as a preview.

- Egg story
- Autumn (c’ant wait for issue 6!!!)
- Wonderland
- The cat with a really big head
- Strange Eggs
- Marlene

a big thank you to you. I always stop at the Amaze Ink section of the sollicitation to look at what is being published by you.

Why those 3 names Amaze Ink/ Slave Salor/ SLG?

I , for one sure fact, would not be interest by digital comics, no matter the cost. I’m ready to pay 4$ per issue, why not raising your prices a little. Sales can’t be worse as they are and I d’ont see people stopping to buy your titles for this, knowing how the market is difficult for you.

Random House is a huge company–one of the”foremost media companies in the world” according to their own website. They can afford to make any deals they wants with whatever creators they desires. Small-press publishers (including “larger” imprints like Slave Labor) don’t have such deep pockets. Every deal they make has to make sense because they don’t have a bunch of “best-sellers” that provide income that can be used to grow their library.

Ultimately, it’s about the risk. Who is bringing what to the table, and what is that worth, ultimately? Especially in the case where a publisher is putting out the work of someone without a proven track record. It’s easy to be happy with just the publishing rights if you know you’re going to sell a whole bunch of books.

So… if creator ownership works for a giant like Random House, it must not be such bad business after all.

I can see the business reason for stores ordering and stocking your best selling stuff, but it’s clearly something that has done your company harm, and that’s sad. I’d have to say though, I get your email newsletter about new books and products, and it leans pretty heavy on the bestseller stuff. Every time I read it it’s Gloom cookie this and Cthulhu Carl that. That may be something to fix.

I also did misinterpret you to mean that you no longer wanted to sign creator-owned contracts. In my defense, that isn’t a carzy conclusion to come to based on what you said. And I really have a big problem with non-creator owned work. Not having gone through the nightmares you have, however, I lack the perspective to criticize you in aything but a bery abstract and naieve way.

But since you were saying how you’d have done it differently, and not how you were going to be doing things, My feelings are very different, and again, I apologize for the misinterpretation.

I do wonder, though: if you think it’s a bad idea, and you have no moral issues with non-creator owned work, then why on earth ARE you still signing creator owned contracts? I’m glad to hear you are, but from what you’ve said I haven’t the faintest idea why you would.

And thanks, Dave, for jumping in to correct me too.

I think over the years we’ve seen and heard so many horror stories of creators who have seen their life’s work turned into these huge cash cows by the publishers without ever seeing a cent that as comics fans and creators, we villifiy a company who would ask for ownership of a property. Comics publishing isn’t charity work, it’s business - and we all love the art form so much that we sometimes lose sight of that.

My last comment ended with what might sound like a slam on Dan Vado. To clarify: it was not. Creators do not generally understand what the publisher “adds” to the equation, except for money. If they don’t get money, they aren’t likely to be as loyal to the publisher, therefore the publisher won’t have the great talent. (does that make more or less sense?)

:)

Actually, one that I enjoyed quite a bit was Replacement God. What most people don’t know is that Dan arranged for the local newsstand in Grinnell, Iowa (where Zander Cannon went to college) to carry the comic. Very classy.

As a creator myself, and as someone who got my start working for Archie Goodwin at Epic Comics, I am very sympathetic to the idea of Creator-ownership. One might say I “grew up” with that as an ideal.

On the other hand, I’ve also tried my hand at small-press publishing (Comiculture), and it’s hard for anyone who hasn’t been there to truly appreciate the time, effort and money that publishers invest on any given project. Especially on the small-press level.

In my case, we had no Production Department to put together books, no Marketing Department to promote books, no Manufacturing Department to deal with printers, no Accounting Dept., et cetera. Nobody was making any money–but It was MY money being SPENT on everything, so I was also the only one truly invested in making the project work.

Comiulture was an “Epic” modeled creator-owned anthology, BTW.

We had all kinds of problems, but the one that is relevant here is that creators often don’t believe that publishers deserve to “own” any part of their works; they just don’t appreciate all that is involved “behind the scenes” in publishing. And, how could they? Most creators are focused on the work they are creating and have no experience in the peripheral jobs that go toward producing a successful publication.

Today I’m working on a book for Tokyopop. They have a “shared copyright” deal that (at least right now) seems pretty fair. We both take a risk and share possible rewards.

I think there are times when both Creator-Owned and Work-For-Hire deals (and various hybrids) are appropriate. I would just say that publishers who wish to own properties outright REALLY need to pay higher, more competetive rates to artists. If they can’t afford to pay, then publishers need to consider more of a partnership with creators, if they don’t want to have them poached by companies with deep pockets.

It’s all well and good for Vado to sat he’d “own it all,” but the reality is that unless he’s willing to pay top dollar to keep top talent, all he’d own is a library of substandard books that nobody wants.