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	<title>Comments on: Fight! Dirk vs Heidi, Round two</title>
	<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/</link>
	<description>The News Blog of Comics Culture</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 23:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2</generator>

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		<title>by: nm</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040234</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040234</guid>
					<description>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don't think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don&#8217;t think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.
</p>
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		<title>by: nm</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040225</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040225</guid>
					<description>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don't think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don&#8217;t think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.
</p>
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		<title>by: nm</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040229</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-1040229</guid>
					<description>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don't think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Reid, I disagee. Although I have no interest in both, the manga indursty is bigger than the american comic books. I don&#8217;t think a spider-man is that attractive what it use to be.
</p>
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		<title>by: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Apr. 2, 2007: My agenda</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-112310</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-112310</guid>
					<description>[...] For those three or four of you with any interest in the epic snitfit Heidi MacDonald and I have been waging these past few days, bad news: Heidi&amp;#8217;s posted her latest salvo, and we&amp;#8217;re now clearly in the &amp;#8220;is not/is too&amp;#8221; portion of the debate. Shorter Heidi: I&amp;#8217;m still an untrustworthy bastard with an agenda for making an error and acknowledging it, and we&amp;#8217;re still no closer to figuring out what a chart containing one of the two disputed books but not the other has to do with any of it. Apparently, mistakes only become signs of an agenda if you acknowledge them as mistakes. So near as I can tell, the argument ends there. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] For those three or four of you with any interest in the epic snitfit Heidi MacDonald and I have been waging these past few days, bad news: Heidi&#8217;s posted her latest salvo, and we&#8217;re now clearly in the &#8220;is not/is too&#8221; portion of the debate. Shorter Heidi: I&#8217;m still an untrustworthy bastard with an agenda for making an error and acknowledging it, and we&#8217;re still no closer to figuring out what a chart containing one of the two disputed books but not the other has to do with any of it. Apparently, mistakes only become signs of an agenda if you acknowledge them as mistakes. So near as I can tell, the argument ends there. [&#8230;]
</p>
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		<title>by: Christopher Moonlight</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-110490</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 07:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-110490</guid>
					<description>All that is true. But I'm talking about what brings readers in. We're talking about the mane stream here. What's happening in the grottos of comics in every country, is all very interesting, but for every 10,000 people who have seen spider-man only 1 or 2 people know about, say Meat Cake. We can't draw our conclusions from the ideals that some underground or obscure comics may meet for us. We're B.S.ing ourselves if we do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All that is true. But I&#8217;m talking about what brings readers in. We&#8217;re talking about the mane stream here. What&#8217;s happening in the grottos of comics in every country, is all very interesting, but for every 10,000 people who have seen spider-man only 1 or 2 people know about, say Meat Cake. We can&#8217;t draw our conclusions from the ideals that some underground or obscure comics may meet for us. We&#8217;re B.S.ing ourselves if we do.
</p>
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		<title>by: Matt</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-110426</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Apr 2007 03:13:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-110426</guid>
					<description>Whats the deal with comparing american and manga comics? One is largely aimed at adult males while the other is more for children and adolescents. There two different audiences. The success of the 300 GN should be considered a huge success and compared to sales of Sin Ciy or V for Vendetta trades rather than compare it to the whatever volume of Naruto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats the deal with comparing american and manga comics? One is largely aimed at adult males while the other is more for children and adolescents. There two different audiences. The success of the 300 GN should be considered a huge success and compared to sales of Sin Ciy or V for Vendetta trades rather than compare it to the whatever volume of Naruto.
</p>
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		<title>by: Stuart Moore</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109994</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109994</guid>
					<description>Calvin, that response was entirely too knowledgeable, reasonable, and even-handed. Who the hell let you on the internet?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calvin, that response was entirely too knowledgeable, reasonable, and even-handed. Who the hell let you on the internet?
</p>
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		<title>by: Calvin Reid</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109987</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109987</guid>
					<description>How about this being a perfect example of the classic comics debate phenomenon of snark first and ask questions later? Heidi and Dirk's takes on the current comics market are clearly closer than all this back and forth would indicate at first. Manga is popular for all the reasons mentioned--its sexy, cute and various; more or less a singular artistic vision and in a durable format that's available where people buy the rest of their books. 

But there's an inherent generalization in this conclusion that overlooks the fact that there's still many more styles of manga than we've seen here in the U.S.  They're not all cute and sexy and they're just starting to make their way into the market. But we know that there's also many new styles of storytelling and drawing in occidental comics in this new marketplace than ever before.  Even if they don't sell like the most commercial manga.

It sure is early to be writing off conventional American comics, be they super hero comics or art comics. This is all still very new to the book market and I believe the direct market, or at least significant parts of it, are adapting and refining what they sell and how they sell it. If you don't like how the market looks today, stick around, it's likely to change. 

Let a thousand comics bloom!!! There's a market correction going on. Certain genres have artificially dominated the comics marketplace, primarily because of how comics are traditionally sold. But thats changing. There was a time you could barely find anything but a superhero comic in a chain bookstore. Thats clearly changed. 

Manga is here to stay and it will settle into a shifting balance with the other categories in the market.  The winners in the long run will be the readers, creators and publishers as this market fitfully begins to reflect the wide variety of comics available. The long awaited death of the one-genre comics marketplace is upon us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about this being a perfect example of the classic comics debate phenomenon of snark first and ask questions later? Heidi and Dirk&#8217;s takes on the current comics market are clearly closer than all this back and forth would indicate at first. Manga is popular for all the reasons mentioned&#8211;its sexy, cute and various; more or less a singular artistic vision and in a durable format that&#8217;s available where people buy the rest of their books. </p>
<p>But there&#8217;s an inherent generalization in this conclusion that overlooks the fact that there&#8217;s still many more styles of manga than we&#8217;ve seen here in the U.S.  They&#8217;re not all cute and sexy and they&#8217;re just starting to make their way into the market. But we know that there&#8217;s also many new styles of storytelling and drawing in occidental comics in this new marketplace than ever before.  Even if they don&#8217;t sell like the most commercial manga.</p>
<p>It sure is early to be writing off conventional American comics, be they super hero comics or art comics. This is all still very new to the book market and I believe the direct market, or at least significant parts of it, are adapting and refining what they sell and how they sell it. If you don&#8217;t like how the market looks today, stick around, it&#8217;s likely to change. </p>
<p>Let a thousand comics bloom!!! There&#8217;s a market correction going on. Certain genres have artificially dominated the comics marketplace, primarily because of how comics are traditionally sold. But thats changing. There was a time you could barely find anything but a superhero comic in a chain bookstore. Thats clearly changed. </p>
<p>Manga is here to stay and it will settle into a shifting balance with the other categories in the market.  The winners in the long run will be the readers, creators and publishers as this market fitfully begins to reflect the wide variety of comics available. The long awaited death of the one-genre comics marketplace is upon us.
</p>
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		<title>by: Christopher Moonlight</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109959</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109959</guid>
					<description>their age, not there age... sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>their age, not there age&#8230; sorry.
</p>
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		<title>by: Christopher Moonlight</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109958</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 16:50:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109958</guid>
					<description>Teens like manga, because it's sexy, and cute, and everyone looks there age. Because it's a comic, they can get it past mom and dad. Alot of adults like manga, because it's sexy, and cute, and everyone looks under-age. A story that they can read, is just a plus. I'm sure many will say I'm wrong, but when I look at books like High School Girls, and How to Draw Erotic Manga, that's what I see. Damn, I'm going to get in trouble for saying that. Oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teens like manga, because it&#8217;s sexy, and cute, and everyone looks there age. Because it&#8217;s a comic, they can get it past mom and dad. Alot of adults like manga, because it&#8217;s sexy, and cute, and everyone looks under-age. A story that they can read, is just a plus. I&#8217;m sure many will say I&#8217;m wrong, but when I look at books like High School Girls, and How to Draw Erotic Manga, that&#8217;s what I see. Damn, I&#8217;m going to get in trouble for saying that. Oh well.
</p>
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		<title>by: Alan Coil</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109911</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109911</guid>
					<description>But, but...I remember.

It was you.

I swear!

{dammitIhategettingoldandlosingmymind}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, but&#8230;I remember.</p>
<p>It was you.</p>
<p>I swear!</p>
<p>{dammitIhategettingoldandlosingmymind}
</p>
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		<title>by: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109900</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Mar 2007 15:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-109900</guid>
					<description>1) I don't &quot;get&quot; the manga craze.  It sounds like something I would love, and I've tried it many many times and I'm never able to get through a single volume/book let alone delve into a series with any interest.  I know it's personal taste and all that, but I'm confused how many of my geeky compatriots clearly do find this genre-unto-itself so identifiable when for me it's like I'm reading something, well frankly, like I'm reading something in another language.  

2) I've been to Borders and Barnes &amp;#38; Noble and all those many times in many major metropolitan areas.  Never, not once, have I ever seen manga outshelf the others EIGHT TO ONE!  Maybe two to one, but generally it's dead even at best, from my own anecdotal experience.

3) You can't call them &quot;Occidental&quot; comics unless I can once again order &quot;Oriental&quot; delivery.

-- Jonathan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) I don&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; the manga craze.  It sounds like something I would love, and I&#8217;ve tried it many many times and I&#8217;m never able to get through a single volume/book let alone delve into a series with any interest.  I know it&#8217;s personal taste and all that, but I&#8217;m confused how many of my geeky compatriots clearly do find this genre-unto-itself so identifiable when for me it&#8217;s like I&#8217;m reading something, well frankly, like I&#8217;m reading something in another language.  </p>
<p>2) I&#8217;ve been to Borders and Barnes &amp; Noble and all those many times in many major metropolitan areas.  Never, not once, have I ever seen manga outshelf the others EIGHT TO ONE!  Maybe two to one, but generally it&#8217;s dead even at best, from my own anecdotal experience.</p>
<p>3) You can&#8217;t call them &#8220;Occidental&#8221; comics unless I can once again order &#8220;Oriental&#8221; delivery.</p>
<p>&#8211; Jonathan
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		<title>by: Rich Johnston</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108631</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108631</guid>
					<description>I'm buying you a magnifying glass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m buying you a magnifying glass.
</p>
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		<title>by: The Beat</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108536</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108536</guid>
					<description>Ha actually that wasn't me! That was Marilyn Bethke, but she was big influence on me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha actually that wasn&#8217;t me! That was Marilyn Bethke, but she was big influence on me!
</p>
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		<title>by: Alan Coil</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108531</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108531</guid>
					<description>Heidi said:
&quot;...writing for TCJ was my first professional work...&quot;
-----
The article on good horse art is one I always think of when your early career is mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heidi said:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;writing for TCJ was my first professional work&#8230;&#8221;<br />
&#8212;&#8211;<br />
The article on good horse art is one I always think of when your early career is mentioned.
</p>
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		<title>by: Robo</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108430</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108430</guid>
					<description>The thing about that list for me was that 9 out of those 10 books were not merely manga, but the same Manga. Is the competition actually healthier than it seems digest-book wise? For example, how do the seven Runaways digests do on the lists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing about that list for me was that 9 out of those 10 books were not merely manga, but the same Manga. Is the competition actually healthier than it seems digest-book wise? For example, how do the seven Runaways digests do on the lists?
</p>
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		<title>by: Primate</title>
		<link>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108417</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/30/fight-dirk-vs-heidi-round-two/#comment-108417</guid>
					<description>Wow.  How do I get my own thoughts and musings and posts elevated beyond &quot;time-wasting,&quot; and into the rarefied worlds of &quot;credo&quot; or &quot;screed&quot;?  Maybe I need to piss off Dirk or something...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow.  How do I get my own thoughts and musings and posts elevated beyond &#8220;time-wasting,&#8221; and into the rarefied worlds of &#8220;credo&#8221; or &#8220;screed&#8221;?  Maybe I need to piss off Dirk or something&#8230;
</p>
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