THE BEAT » Blog Archive » And the tits just keep coming

And the tits just keep coming

Boy oh boy, you’d think I’d planned the timing of my look at women and comics to coincide with the solicitations, which, unbidden, contain such things as these:

Just another day at the office. Business as usual. Moving on. I should note that I actually like Adam Hughes’ covers for CATWOMAN — these are sexy but not demeaning, and we all know that Catwoman is not above using her attractiveness to get what she wants.

The winner for the week however comes from Marvel and it’s a beaut:
Hfh13-
Great. There’s apparently some bound MALE team member tied up behind Black Cat, but why bother to show him in hentai bondage. Although I’d like to think this image of an octopus caressing a bound woman’s nipple was an homage to the great Hokusai [link NSFW], somehow I think that was not the intent. The repugnance against this cover has been widespread among both men and women, but pornographer Elin Winkler puts it best:
200705221621

Now, as we all know, I publish pornographic comics. Not just tease comics or pinup comics or sexy comics- hardcore pornography. Poles & holes, money shots, manga-style spurting penii, cartoon boobies bouncing, etc. I am not ashamed of the adult comics my company publishes. This is because I try to be a responsible editor and I believe there should be adult comics out there with consensual sex, women enjoying themselves and not being treated as mere objects, couples in love who can’t keep their hands off each other, and the radical idea that sex, in all its forms, should be fun and pleasant and positive. This means it’s often difficult to find artists who understand these concepts, and we often have to reject stuff with very nice art that contains things like rape, snuff, extreme violence, and the like.

I looked at this cover for Heroes For Hire and realized that 1) it looks like it belongs on the cover of a porn comic, like Milk and 2) it’s a cover I wouldn’t even run on Milk, because the women are all obviously in an abused position. That was my initial reaction.

My second reaction was something along the lines of “holy shit, is that Misty Knight?!”

Holy shit indeed. Because you see, those bound and degraded women, one of them with some kind of white liquid dripping on her boobs, are the HEROES of HEROES FRO HIRE. That’s right. They are the protagonists, the instigators. The heroes. And I too weep for Misty Knight. That’s her to the left. Can you believe it? She’s wearing clothes. And standing up. Straight. And not tied up. And she’s got a gun. And she obviously knows how to USE it. And if you cross her, she will.

200705221623
When the new HEROES FOR HIRE starring Misty Knight and Colleen Wing and Black Cat and a few others started in 2006, she looked like this (right.) Although she’s gotten a little less tough, and Cheryl Lynn has had a field day with her hairstyle, at least she’s wearing clothes and standing upright, etc.

In fact, when I was a teenaged girl reading comics, I wouldn’t have minded being Misty Knight. She was smart and tough and in control and had exciting adventures. AND she got to date dreamy Danny Rand, aka Iron Fist! What was not to like!

Now? Well, unless you’re the “S” in a “D&S” you probably don’t want to be Misty Knight. No offense to the S’s out there.

Now, here is the SHOCKING TWIST ENDING!!! R U READY??? That salivating, salacious cover? It was drawn by an artist named Sana Takeda. Who is Japanese.

And a woman.

Yep, that cover was drawn by a woman.

Are you confused? Is she a gender traitor? Is hentai what girls really like?

I don’t know what went into that cover. I know the editor is Mark Paniccia, the father of a one year old daughter that he loves more than anything. I know Mark well enough to hazard the guess that he wasn’t trying to “oppress” women, “oppress” Misty Knight, or follow a secret agenda. He was probably just trying to sell more books. I imagine Sana Takeda wanted to sell more books. The really really sad thing is that inside the Biosphere, up on the mountain, probably nobody gave this a second thought. Nobody thought that “Misty Knight and the Black Cat and Colleen Wing shouldn’t be shown this way because it demeans them as characters.”

And you know what’s even sadder? That no one at Marvel or DC will ever say a word about any of this. The Mary Jane statue controversy had been going on for well over a week, and been on TV shows, with nary a peep out of an official spokesman at either company. Will anyone ask Joe Quesada or Paul Levitz about any of this? Will anyone remember?

And that, ladies and germs, is why we can’t shut up.

This entry was posted on 05/22/07 at 4:49 pm and is filed under DC, Marvel, Sociology, Cryptozoology. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

58 Responses to “And the tits just keep coming”

Jonathan Says:
05/22/07 at 5:13 pm
Penii. Funny word.

Oh, and technically speaking Heidi, the S’s you referred to generally write it as s’s. However, such de-capitalization raises a similar debate (not quite as hotly contested however) on message boards of an entire other section of the internet. Just, ya know, FYI…
Lea Says:
05/22/07 at 5:31 pm
As I understand it from reading elsewhere, Paniccia is no longer the editor on H4H, though he may have bought that cover while he still was.
The blame to be assigned for this cover, and there’s blame a-plenty, goes to whatever editor bought it, whatever editor approved it, and Joe Quesada.

Quesada has a daughter, too. Having a daughter or wife doesn’t seem to blunt this Manstream crap one little bit. In fact, men seem to hide behind their women, as surely as there is a man on that cover behind those women, using them as a shield when their product is called into question. “My wife likes it.” “I have a one-year-old daughter.” “My girlfriend doesn’t have a problem with it.” “I have a wife.”

I reckon we ought to start donating to the CBLDF now, because this cover is exactly the sort of thing a politician or judge looking for re-election needs for a nice, juicy, obscenity court case. This cover, by itself, will not pass an obscenity test.

My thoughts on the cover:
http://divalea.livejournal.com/454772.html

Way to go, Manstream.
Guy LeCharles Gonzalez Says:
05/22/07 at 5:34 pm
Will anyone ask Joe Quesada or Paul Levitz about any of this?

Some may ask, but will they feel the need to answer, and why not? That’s why the blogiverse is ultimately a better answer to the call for comics journalism than any formal publication, print or online.
Robomonkey Says:
05/22/07 at 5:46 pm
Hmm. Would admitting an error lead to the destruction of mainstream comics as we know it? Or would it correct it? And how did that cover even pass a censor!? Is there a censor even!? Should there be!? Too many questions without answers…
Dan Says:
05/22/07 at 6:39 pm
“In fact, men seem to hide behind their women, as surely as there is a man on that cover behind those women, using them as a shield when their product is called into question. “My wife likes it.” “I have a one-year-old daughter.” “My girlfriend doesn’t have a problem with it.” “I have a wife.”

Not sure what this means? Are saying that these woman don’t like the stuff? Are saying that the men are lying and saying that thier wives like it?
Are saying that because I have a daughter (and I do) That I can’t be into bondage? Yes there is a problem with the representation of woman this way in comics. Arguing with generalized statements does nothing to help.
Alex Cox Says:
05/22/07 at 7:25 pm
Some may ask, but will they feel the need to answer, and why not? That’s why the blogiverse is ultimately a better answer to the call for comics journalism than any formal publication, print or online.

hahahahaha….

“And that’s why this totally unrelated topic supports my current agenda!”

Good stretch there, Guy.

Well played.
Tony Bedard Says:
05/22/07 at 7:26 pm
Oh, Heidi, why do you hate men so?
ken Says:
05/22/07 at 7:56 pm
“Yes there is a problem with the representation of woman this way in comics. Arguing with generalized statements does nothing to help.”

I’m not a woman, and this topic doesn’t impact me on any kind of personal level, but I can’t see how arguing with generalized statements hurts. It’s tough to have year after year of these kind of drawings and then ask everyone to please narrow their comments to something so specific that it stifles criticism of the trend itself and those who continue the trend.
Paul O'Brien Says:
05/22/07 at 8:02 pm
HEROES FOR HIRE has always been basically a T&A book, and it’s never done it any good. I genuinely have my doubts as to whether this stuff *does* boost sales to any appreciable degree. I think it’s just an article of faith with Marvel and DC. If you look at what actually sells in the direct market, it’s pretty tough to point to a book with high sales that you can attribute to tits. (Frank Cho on MIGHTY AVENGERS, for example, is selling roughly the same as Leinil Francis Yu on NEW AVENGERS. Which kind of suggests it’s the Avengers, not the tits.)
Lea Says:
05/22/07 at 8:14 pm
Dan:
What I mean is, when imagery like the above is called into question, there are men who will use the women/girls in their life as “proof” the imagery is not harmful, demeaning, or misogynist.

e.g., “My wife likes it.” “I have a daughter/wife/girlfriend, I can’t be a misogynist .” “My girlfriend doesn’t have a problem with it.”

Hope I’ve cleared that up.
TonPo Says:
05/22/07 at 8:16 pm
I really really like the Elin Winkler quote you included. That pretty much sums it up for me.

Now, I get just as annoyed as the next person by over-eager bloggers who feel the need to criticize and complain about things all the time. I’m a pretty cynical and dour dude, but I still need my doctor recommended ray of sunshine from time to time. That being said, I honestly didn’t see why there was quite as much fuss over the MJ statue as there was. Sure it was disrespectful to the character, but then again so was Todd McFarlane’s entire run on Spiderman. Our ideal of Mary Jane may have been betrayed, but the product was not. It was obvious from the outset who the intended audience for that statue was, and what sort of function it was intended to fulfill.

This cover, in my opinion, is the exact opposite of that. It’s misleading, as Ms. Winkler so adeptly pointed out, and it’s insulting to fans who like to actually read the story contained within the covers. Heroes for Hire is not Lil’ Annie Fannie, and it’s insulting to a lot of us that Marvel (and DC) feel the need to constantly lie to us and mislead us into buying their books. Is it that these companies feel that their standard market of heterosexual males will only buy books that feature female leads (a “concerted effort” to bring aboard female readers) if they all have covers like this?

The continued output of crap like this is an insult and a betrayal to mildly-intelligent comic book readers everywhere. I demand less crap like this proliferating the shelves, and more comics that feature Picasso masturbating with roasted chickens (go read Nick Beretozzi’s “The Salon”).
Chuck Says:
05/22/07 at 8:27 pm
It’s too bad they pick up some of the more lurid aspects of Japanese comics in these statues/toys and covers, instead of the elements that have broad appeal.
Franklin Harris Says:
05/22/07 at 9:45 pm
These are comic books about gorgeous people in skin-tight costumes wailing away on each other. Of course they’re for fetishists. The only complaint I see is that the guys aren’t really getting in on the fun, except maybe for Superman and Green Lantern.
Dan Says:
05/22/07 at 9:51 pm
Lea,
Sorry I wasn’t trying to call you out…and the way you newly phrased it I think delivers the point much stronger….could be just me you know…

I do agree with you though, its sad that there are mainstream superhero comics that I can’t read to my 2 yr old daughter or 6 yr old son because of the pictures…
Josh Says:
05/22/07 at 10:44 pm
I guess I don’t see why people think Marvel or DC should reply. Honestly and I mean this with all respect it seems like the readers/writers making a fuss on line. Blogs have a tendency to make things sound louder than they are. These products are aimed at a very niche crowd and that crowd buys them. They are not meant for everyone and just because some do not like them does not mean Marvel or DC should not make them and people not be able to buy them.

I agree that they should show more deversity in products and try and make products for a female readership just like they do for the fanboys. That is what people should be asking for and working on not freaking out over something that is not meant for them in the first place.

Again I mean this with all respect, I love this blog and read regularly. I just don’t understand why people think everything has to be for everyone. There are plenty of things not designed or meant for me, it does not mean I think they should not exist at all.
Jim Ottaviani Says:
05/22/07 at 10:47 pm
“Will anyone ask Joe Quesada or Paul Levitz about any of this? Will anyone remember?”

Heidi, I hope you ask (who better?), and I hope you get answers you can share.
Hector Lima Says:
05/22/07 at 10:48 pm
maybe the next step in sales boosting is taking the E and the R off the title…
Christopher Moonlight Says:
05/22/07 at 10:58 pm
“Is there a censor even!? Should there be!? ”

No, but that doesn’t mean that editor shouldn’t take responsibility for the content of their comics. I remember when Frank Kane called out Karen Burger for alienating Christian readers (rather then female readers) with Preacher. His point was not that it should be censored, but rather thought through. His thought was that there are alot of potential Christian readers that would never go into a comic book store as long as they were pushing books like that to new customers. That’s alot of money passing stores by. The censorship card was pulled on him, in order to take away any credibly that he might have in his point of view.

“Sure it was disrespectful to the character, but then again so was Todd McFarlane’s entire run on Spiderman.”

I liked Todd’s run and felt that it had been a long time since MJ seemed that dynamic, but hey that’s just my tast.

So, as for the comic. I have to admit, the only way I’m offended by it, is in that it’s stupid, and not appropriate for a place where parents send their kids to. Anyone who has seen my fine art paintings knows that there are plenty of naked women in it, but I would never put that sort of thing up front for kids to see. I should also add in my own defense that most of my patrons are women, and tell me that I still show women in a strong and beautiful light. So I ask; (and this is outside the realm of what kids see) can women be shown in a positive way, without their close on, not hiding their secualality, or am I just kidding myself. I ask this as a lover of womanly beauty, but also with the utmost respect for the female mind.
The Beat Says:
05/22/07 at 11:01 pm
Okay because I’m a moron I had two versions of this post up and have deleted one, but some comments that were made to it, so I have preserved them here:

On 05/22/07 at 7:49 pm e MICHAEL wrote:

Keepin it Real Heidi!!!

I’m not shocked it was by a female. All the Japanese are crazy in their ideas as their morals and traditions are radically different than what we have in the U.S.

And I respect Elin a lot, even moreso now. You go Elin!!

Finally, yes, Daughters of the Dragon and Heroes for Hire was infinitely better in the first few issues. Though, I have to say, I really don’t remember anything actually INSIDE the comic that was that icky.

On 05/22/07 at 9:13 pm e Shannon Chenoweth wrote:

You know, I really love Marvel Comics so incredibly much, but this makes me ashamed to be a fan of not just Marvel, but of comics in general with images like this out there. There really is no excuse for this. As Heidi has already stated, these women are heroes. HEROES! And yet, they are being treated like sex objects. This is unacceptable in my mind. Big boobs and sex poses are one thing, but putting these heroes in a pornographic and abusive situation like this is just sickening.

I really hope Marvel pulls this cover before it hits the comic shop shelves or at least makes changes to it.

On 05/22/07 at 10:38 pm e Josh wrote:

I guess I don’t see why people think Marvel or DC should reply. Honestly and I mean this with all respect it seems like the readers/writers making a fuss on line. Blogs have a tendency to make things sound louder than they are. These products are aimed at a very niche crowd and that crowd buys them. They are not meant for everyone and just because some do not like them does not mean Marvel or DC should not make them and people not be able to buy them.

I agree that they should show more deversity in products and try and make products for a female readership just like they do for the fanboys. That is what people should be asking for and working on not freaking out over something that is not meant for them in the first place.

Again I mean this with all respect. I love this blog and I think it is really wonderfully done. I just don’t understand why people think everything has to be for everyone. If DC launches a line of comics aimed at girls I don’t care. It is not for me, but I don’t want it to stop. I just hope people buy and the industry stays healthy.
Darren J. Gendron Says:
05/22/07 at 11:57 pm
In no way am I endorsing the fetishing of superheroes in comics. But the bondage aspects do get played out by the male heroes, too (adding Batman to Franklin’s note on Green Lantern and Supes):
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1563899140.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
Franklin Harris Says:
05/23/07 at 12:06 am
Lea wrote: “This cover, by itself, will not pass an obscenity test.”

Are you serious? It doesn’t even meet any the definition of pornography, much less obscenity, given that no “naughty bits” or acts of heavy breathing are involved. Hyperbole does not help your case.

Shannon Chenoweth wrote: “Big boobs and sex poses are one thing, but putting these heroes in a pornographic and abusive situation like this is just sickening.”

Again, just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it pornographic. And I think we need to define abusive. Half the point of superheroes is that they get abused, captured, beaten up, etc. Showing the hero in jeopardy is part of the game. So, we might as well drop that as an issue and get to the real point: It’s the sexuality, not the jeopardy that’s the point.

And, of course, if you Google “Comic Book Bondage Cover of the Day,” you’ll find it’s nothing new and this is not even an extreme example.
The Beat Says:
05/23/07 at 12:50 am
Watch out, Franklin, you’re hittin’ that bingo card!

Can we please put the whole “men in comics are objectified too!” thing to rest? It is NOT germane to the present argument. Do superhero objectifications make you UNCOMFORTABLE? If not, they are not the same.
Dave F. Says:
05/23/07 at 1:43 am
>>Will anyone ask Joe Quesada or Paul Levitz about any of this? Will anyone remember?

I know Newsarama’s not exactly where one goes for hard-hittin’ journalism, but I’ve occasionally been surprised at some of the hardball questions they’ve pitched at Quesada for the “Joe Fridays” feature.

Will they have the stones to put this one to him? I’m actually gonna guess they will. Can Quesada deflect the question with his Reagan-esque talent for winning over the masses? I bet he will.
Scott Bieser Says:
05/23/07 at 1:57 am
I think Franklin did point out, correctly, that “It’s the sexuality, not the jeopardy that’s the point.”

I’m sure that H4H pamphlet is not going to be see where children are likely to find it — only in comics-specialty stores patronized almost entirely by 18-45-year-old males, and most of them are involuntarily celibate so they won’t have kids to bring those things home to.

So it’s not about warping children, or oppressing women, it’s about material that makes women uncomfortable. But does material need special justification for existence because it makes some people, even a lot of people, uncomfortable? As was pointed out in the comments, The Preacher makes a lot of Christians uncomfortable. Persepolis makes a lot of Muslims uncomfortable. No doubt comics like Shirtlifter make homophobes uncomfortable. I’m not sure “uncomfortableness” is a standard we really ought to impose.

The world would unquestionably be improved by having a comics market that contained a great deal more material women can enjoy. The question then becomes, does complaining about fanboy-service products like that H4H cover or the “comiquettes” bring us closer to that goal? Or does it just scratch an itch?
Tim O'Shea Says:
05/23/07 at 2:08 am
“it’s the Avengers, not the tits.”

Could become a new Marvel battle cry…
Stephen Bergstrom Says:
05/23/07 at 2:46 am
More like “eyes up here!” (Props properly go to Scott Kurtz for that one)

No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the public.

Morally bankrupt, perhaps, but not broke.
Christopher Moonlight Says:
05/23/07 at 3:01 am
“As was pointed out in the comments, The Preacher makes a lot of Christians uncomfortable. Persepolis makes a lot of Muslims uncomfortable. No doubt comics like Shirtlifter make homophobes uncomfortable. I’m not sure “uncomfortableness” is a standard we really ought to impose.”

Yeah, I think you missed the point of that, which was many main stream comics companies chose to (quite unwittingly, but that’s no excuse) alienate potential readers by going with fanboy-service and shock value, rather then make the effort to present quality comics. I have no objection to themes that may make “Christians uncomfortable” as long as it’s done in a intelligent manner. I’m a Catholic (sort of) and I was very sad when the Swamp Thing meets Jesus issue got scrubbed. Sure, they put it our a couple of years later, but by then it no longer had momentum. It’s no wonder the majority of America still won’t except our work as a valid medium. Furthermore, “stores patronized almost entirely by 18-45-year-old males” are going the way of the laserdisc. If you can’t bring in and Kraft service the young readers, comics truly have no future.
Franklin Harris Says:
05/23/07 at 3:35 am
Heidi, I don’t see where I’m playing bingo. Clearly, while male characters are sometimes sexually “objectified”, too, it is nowhere near as common as it is with female characters, which was my point in saying “the guys aren’t really getting in on the fun, except maybe for Superman and Green Lantern.” Now, do those covers make ME uncomfortable? Not in the slightest, but that has more to do with me than the depictions themselves. After all, one of my favorite movies is “Secretary.”

But to get this back on track, I’m not at all certain that the assumption that it is sexually explicit/demeaning depictions of superheroines that’s turning off potential female readers. Certainly abundant fan service isn’t keeping teenage and pre-teen girls from reading manga. (Again, this is not “bingo”; I’m not telling women to just go read manga. I think what turns them off is the superhero part of the equation. Now, obviously, most women reading this now are going to be exceptions, and the idea is going to feel as strange to you as getting upset over festishized superhero BDSM does to me. But I can count on one hand the number of women I’ve known personally in 35 years who read superhero comics (as opposed to manga and the occasional Vertigo title). That goes all the way back to the pre-bad girl 1980s, when I knew one girl who read “New Teen Titans.” Compare that to the many girls and young women I know who read something like “Bondage Fairies” or “Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose,” and it’s some pretty compelling, if anecdotal and maybe even weird, evidence.
Franklin Harris Says:
05/23/07 at 3:58 am
OK, that last one has lots of typos. It is far too late/early to be typing anything.
Mickle Says:
05/23/07 at 5:20 am
I think Franklin did point out, correctly, that “It’s the sexuality, not the jeopardy that’s the point.”

no no no no

When the two are put together, it’s always the sexuality and the the sexuality with the jeopardy that’s the point.

It’s bad enough that women are objectified as much as they are, but the extent to which that objectification tends to go hand in hand with physical violence is downright terrifying.
Bulent Says:
05/23/07 at 7:18 am
I think you hit the nail on the head when you refer the editorial staff at the comics companies as living in a biosphere. Currently there’s a real dichotomy between what readers want and what editors THINK we want, and it’s causing some spectacular blunders on their part.

Keep the pressure up, Heidi!
Elayne Riggs Says:
05/23/07 at 7:54 am
Heidi, did you ever know that you’re my hero?

My feeble-by-comparison ComicMix column on all of this is out today. This article is, naturally, one of my links.
universalperson Says:
05/23/07 at 8:27 am
Franklin: Girls like superheroes. Women go to see Spider-Man.
universalperson Says:
05/23/07 at 8:29 am
Franklin. Women do like superheroes. Naruto, for example, is really just superheroics under another name. And there is a massive female fanbase. Similar titles include Full Metal Alchemist (the creator is a big fan of the superhero-inspired Star Wars).
Patrick Says:
05/23/07 at 8:33 am
I guess with you, I’d question what your end goal is (and I guess others)? Them making a statement regarding the cover (either company mind you)? Making a more concerted effort to not do things like this? etc. I’m not bashing you or questiong your (or anyone else’s) opinions, I’m just trying to figure out what you’d like to see accomplished. Again, I’m right there with you, I think it is off and should not have been published.

In addition, there are many other “calls” that each companies make that no one seems to make the companies respond to or try to change, yet we let those go without a peep. granted, this one is a touch more visual and “morally wrong” so I’m just curious.

Jimmy/Justin’s version of DOD and HFH was an exact example of how a book can be sexy without showing a touch of skin. These were two, attractive, sexy characters that had brains to match their bodies and they were more willing to use the prior before the latter. Read their stories, they accomplished that. Now, I’m not sure what the book, specifically the cover, is trying to convey.

It bothers me that it did go through, what has been indicated, many levels without someone even remotely questioning the cover. Yet, the press is what they get, even if the cover gets bounced, they are getting press.
Justin Gray Says:
05/23/07 at 8:45 am
I don’t know if anyone short of Tony Isabella loves Misty Knight as a character more than I do and yes Daughters of the Dragon was done as an homage to Blaxploitation (the inspiration for these characters) –big fro and all as a personal preference because I find them attractive. But you’ll notice that in reading DOD both Misty and Colleen, while sexualized, were smarter and more capable than anyone else they encountered in that book. That was always the hard and fast rule when Jimmy and I wrote the book.

They reflected the genre and time period in a fun and stylized manner, they were aware of their sexuality, they even used it to their advantage in much the same way as the movies that inspired them do, but that wasn’t the extent of their worth as characters. At least not in my opinion. Do I like the cover? No, but my dislike of it is due to the representation of the Characters I adore.
Really, Marvel? REALLY? « In One Ear… Says:
05/23/07 at 10:26 am
[…] Update: Heidi MacDonald over at the Beat gets a little more in depth. […]
:: Capa de “Heroes for Hire” com tentáculos Hentai causa polêmica :: May :: 2007 Says:
05/23/07 at 10:50 am
[…] Via Journalista e BEAT. […]
:: Capa de “Heroes for Hire” com tentáculos Hentai causa polêmica :: May :: 2007 Says:
05/23/07 at 10:51 am
[…] Via Journalista e BEAT. […]
rich Says:
05/23/07 at 11:38 am
“I’m sure that H4H pamphlet is not going to be see where children are likely to find it — only in comics-specialty stores patronized almost entirely by 18-45-year-old males, and most of them are involuntarily celibate so they won’t have kids to bring those things home to.”

Good lord … I’m sure that isn’t the case.

Can anyone think of another hobby where the fans are hated as much?
--MC Says:
05/23/07 at 3:37 pm
Mickie says, above, “When the two are put together, it’s always the sexuality and the the sexuality with the jeopardy that’s the point.”
True that, and it’s been that way forever. Whether it’s Mina Harker being menaced by a vampire, or Pauline escaping another Peril, the two have always gone together in cheap literature.
This cover image, though, crosses over into new territory. This is like a painting commissioned by a tits and slime fetishist.
At what point do we start looking at the people who make this stuff, and the people who buy it, and tap our heads in horrified disbelief at how sleazy it is? Me, I passed that point a while back. Sadly, I haven’t bought a new Marvel comic in about twenty years, so I can’t boycott them.
Scott Rowland Says:
05/23/07 at 5:26 pm
Why would anyone bother to ask Paul Levitz? I don’t think he had anything to do with this cover.

It’s a dumb cover, but I can’t say that I understand the rancor. I’d think that representing superheroines by tracing porn stars/adult models or almost anything drawn by Mark Beachum would be worse. (But I do understand the point that there being other wrongs doesn’t excuse this one — I’m just saying that it surprises me those things don’t spark more complaints.)

Anyway, I’ll vote with my wallet, and not purchase this issue.
Michael Says:
05/23/07 at 7:27 pm
Scott, you must not be paying much attention if you think “those things” are going unnoticed.
Shannon Chenoweth Says:
05/23/07 at 9:34 pm
Franklin: I LOVE comics, heck, Spider-man is one of my most favorite characters! So, pardon me if I find that some female heroes are being portrayed in a negative matter rather than a positive one like they should be. It’s one thing to show some skin, or bigger boobs, but this cover image is just crying out “wrong!”
TEN JACK TEN » Blog Archive » Of Interest - 5/25/07 Says:
05/25/07 at 12:00 pm
[…] Over at The Beat, Heidi MacDonald clubs the issue baby-seal-style here, here, here, and here. Although it all seems like a variation of “I don’t think this should be allowed to exist.” Hey, nobody listened to me when I objected to the existence of boy bands and the horrible teenage squealing they produced. Fulminating over the objectification or inferred servitude of a fictional character is just as silly. LINK […]
Rich Yan Says:
05/25/07 at 2:00 pm
Ask Quesada? They ran the hank Pym crawling out of Jan’s vagina sequence while he was EIC. Do you think he’ll say no to anything?!
The Beat Says:
05/25/07 at 2:18 pm
Really, what’s wrong with having a tiny man crawl out of your vagina as long as you’re married to him?
WIMN’s Voices: A Group Blog on Women, Media, AND… » Blog Archive » Black Women in Comics Panel: “Having Our Say: Black Women Discuss Imagery” Says:
05/25/07 at 3:45 pm
[…] CLE “Misty Knight.” [Note: Knight was one of the first substantial black women characters in mainstream comics. A few days after the panel, Eaton writes in her blog that she was horrified to see the latest cover of the comics series starring Misty Knight, which shows Knight and her friends drawn in a ridiculous porn style and being molested by tentacles. See PW Beat for more.] […]
Tamora Pierce Says:
05/26/07 at 8:05 pm
>>Will anyone ask Joe Quesada or Paul Levitz about any of this?
El inocuo mundo de Joe Quesada « ¡Operación Mandril! Says:
05/28/07 at 7:07 pm
[…] Hasta aquí trata Newsarama el tema acerca de las insinuaciones en los productos de Marvel, aunque hay que tomar en cuenta que no querrán molestar mucho a sus clientes. En cambio es interesante ver la reacción que tuvo a estar portada Elin Winkler, quién se dedica a publicar comics para adultos: Ahora, como todos sabemos, yo publico comics pornográficos. […] No me avergüenzo de los comics para adultos que mi compañía publica. Esto es porque trato de ser un editor responsable que creo que debe haber comics para adultos con sexo consentido, mujeres disfrutando y no siendo tratadas como meros objetos […] Veo la portada de Heroes for Hire y me doy cuenta de que 1) esto pertenece en la portada de un comic para adultos, como Milk y 2) es una portada que ni siquiera yo pondría en Milk, porque las mujeres se encuentran todas obviamente en una posición de abuso. Esa fue mi reacción inicial. […]
Faster, Speed Racer! But keep going in circles. Says:
05/28/07 at 11:06 pm
I’m surprised that anyone that knew their alphabet during the ‘bad girls’ craze is too terribly shocked and appalled by this.

Really, this conversation is a bit boring because every point and counter is predictable to the point where it would make efficient satire. Every argument just looks like an ad hominem rerun from the last time this happened, and you can see it repeated again next week when it happens again. The reason Marvel doesn’t need to answer the critics is because the outrage doesn’t feel genuine, it is finite, and you can’t possibly make it last another week without just losing more faith in the human race, let alone one of the hobbies you love.

I think the reason you’d never see this kind of cover with a male protagonist is because the mainstream companies understand that both their female readers and the mostly heterosexual (and probably slightly homophobic) male readers would recoil in horror. Whereas I feel sufficiently conditioned by comics and most other artistic mediums that this cover just makes me roll my eyes.

But hey, Marvel’s still got one ace up their sleeve. You’ve only seen the cover!
What if the actual content inside of the issue is a direct contraposition to a cover they knew was sexist, and they’ve been baiting you all the entire time? Frankly, if that isn’t true, (and yes, I’m sure it isn’t.) they should scrap the inside story and art and make it happen just to be ambitious. It’ll read like the S.C.U.M. Manifesto but with even more violence against men, a rousing tribute to fervid, determined sisterhood and an honest look at gender identity. If the last page doesn’t end with more synchronous menstruation than the 4th week of Lilith Fair, than yes, I’ll join you in burning Joe Quesada in effigy and we can go back to a Marvel thats run by business men in suits rather than genuinely creative types.

Either way, I think you’re just pretending to care. You’re either going through the motions because you think you should be offended, or you should seek out some genuine hentai and the vast majority of pornographic comics, try to get skin a bit thicker so as not to bleed to death in a rain storm.
deathtotheevil Says:
06/11/07 at 11:03 am
Yes, and they should do more things for a select audience.
They should do more comics for the segregationists.
Fuu Says:
06/12/07 at 8:34 pm
” Do I like the cover? No, but my dislike of it is due to the representation of the Characters I adore.”

See, I agree with what Justin Gray said here.
To me it would be more of a situation because of misinterpretation.
This SCREAMS male (and to a smaller range of females) fanservice. It doesn’t offend me personally, but it makes me roll my eyes. There will always be fanservice of one kind or another, and I don’t think the issue is an imbalance of male to female fanservice art.
I think it’s just depicting them in a wrong light. Sort of misleading, as if they’re trying (and I think they are) targeting an audience of people who enjoy this kind of thing. Is the cover the same as the content? Buy it and find out. I don’t like the fact that some readers are being mislead, and that characters aren’t being interpretted right.

It’s not an issue of degrading women. It’s not an issue of fan service. It’s just misinterpretation of characters and content.

On another note, I see that people continue to say women prefer manga.
As a woman, I disagree. I love gritty stories with manly characters. I don’t enjoy boys with big eyes and flowing white hair. I want my men mean with some chest hair to boast. Hairless manga seals aren’t my kinda thing. ;P

And with the issue of female fanservice: I’ve never seen Peter Parker or Superman in a provocative situation a woman might enjoy. Where is my half naked wet man being touched tenderly by tentacles? In the cover you see, what? AN ARM? Oo la la!
It’s time for the man to be full frontal, if ya catch my drift.
ABH Says:
06/22/07 at 9:34 am
I see NOTHING wrong with that cover.It’s cute & kinda hot.I think you have too much time on your hands to complain about something like this completely harmless cover.You must go completly insane of stuff like gagfactor.com or bukkake porn!

I will buy that issue for the cover & the cover alone.Sex sells,get over it.
Foot2Mouth - A Mouth Kicking Comics and Gaming News Source » Blog Archive » DC Starts a New Kids-Comics Line Says:
08/13/07 at 10:09 pm
[…] During the many crisis that happened in the blogsphere recently, including tentacle issues, and Mary Jane statue problems an underlying point (or perhaps a side point) has come during these discussions. That point is that Comics are not for kids, a factoid that most people are comfortable with (myself included). But it is a bummer that there aren’t some niche titles for kids, since the current comics audience is graying and we haven’t the damndest idea how to get new readers (Manga steals them all!) […]
Noel Says:
10/21/07 at 5:50 am
I remember when I was a young lad (and to some extent even today) when I liked a hero in a movie or TV show, and thought he was someone to emulate and think he was bad-assed…but then he gets caught and allows himself to be tied up. Then he was tainted. How bad-assed can he really be if lets himself get taken alive, and subjected to such humiliation and potentially worse? Is this the sentiment your expressing by being troubled about this comic book cover? If so, I would have found it still acceptable if the male hero was restrained as in this image, hands over head, and chain instead of rope. Just it’s not too humilating for some reason, but practical and basic restraint. Second point is that when a protagonist is captured, it’s just good drama and tension. You can have them triumph, or die, but here’s a way you can have failure turned around or redeemed possibly (read always). It’s not a kink or sexism when it’s just a story elelment. Finally, I love the idea of a fantasy medium such as a comic book or animated series, which I would personally like to be a creator of even, where the females are constantly and continually in bondage predicaments… titilating ones. Only the females. If a guy is a prisoner, the restraints will be minimalist and not focused on. This is because it’s just so damn hot looking to display women tied up, but also just the natural order…they’re submissive. Just accept it’s human nature, and embrace and celebrate it. I also want it to shove in the face of ‘plitically correct’ people who take this ‘girl power’ thing too. In reality the women heroins WOULD get tied up more likely, because they’re physically weaker than males, so would be easily captured alive. Plus women are less likely to rather die fighting, they’d happily surrender and be tied up naked in public if need be and be happy they didn’t get hurt too badly as the alternative. Muahh haa haa. I’m going to go play ‘melodrama villain’ with my sexy and submissive ‘heroine’ now.
Noel Says:
10/21/07 at 6:40 am
I didn’t read al the comments on this until after posting my prior comment, I just read the top 10 or so. I am posting again to agree with the sentiment that the complaints here are not really genuine, just responses in accordance with how some people think they ’should’ react. Speed Racer said it all.
But aside from my instigating feminists and sharing my personal picadillos, I did want a reply to my inquiry about this cover being comparable for you female readers who adore these heroines to see them demeaned by restraints with me not idolizing Batman anymore after seeing him in the same situation. (But worse, and way too often) I mean he’s just not cool anymore after he already got hogtied or whatever.

Also, to the posting regarding the combination of titilation and jeopardy being the worst horror of our era, worse than the Holocaust and the slave trade combined apparently: would it be better if the cover and the story around it was about women being restrained willingly for the purpose of titiliation? They could make it clear from the first glance it’s all in fun. Would that be more appropriate for a comic book on a shelf often browsed by children? They could have smiles on their faces and be licking their lips as the tentacles are gently and seductively caressing their cleavage I suppose? You’re sick! Go read some vintage Little Lulu or Donald Duck if you can’t handle typical action/hero comic situations. If you knew enough to be offended in the first place by comparisons to a certain Asian kink genre, then look in the mirror before pointing a finger. It looks like you’re projecting to me by even seeing a problem here in the first place.
Jani Says:
05/6/09 at 8:45 pm
I agree with the lot of you that Do Not find the cover crass or full of female humiliation or the like. I’m a woman with a daughter and totally enjoy these covers. I’m not into BDSM or anything similar but I find covers like these interesting. I’m not going to get all bent outta shape over a comic book cover.

Come on!

I know there’s some die-hard fans out there and I respect anything and all that they have to say. But, IMO I don’t find this offense at all. The female characters are beautifully drawn and it just draws out suspense and thrill in the situation the characters are set in. I seriously do not see the problem but hey to each his own right?!

And the tits just keep coming

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