The world needs more Twain quoting.

Don’t you think that’s a rather academic point? That’s like saying words cannot lie, just the people saying the words. Words can be presented with the intention of deceiving people, and statistics can be presented with the intention of deceiving.

Luckily, I do not believe Diamond, or Frisch, have any deceptive intent.

I guess it is a matter of perspective. The direct market was in its infancy. Watchmen brought in new fans. I was of them. To me did not look to Marvel and DC to find more Alan Moore like stuff. First and Eagle were great. Comico gave many of us our first looks at people like Chuck Dixion and Bill Willingham. Comico also gave me my first look at printed anime with their Robotech material. I think Eastman and Laird gave us TMNT a couple of years earlier. Dark Horse was just starting up. The impact that “the others” had on the comic industry was amazing. The talent and material that was coming out from “the others” around 1987 is still having an impact on the industry. That is how I saw strength. It was not all sales to me but they did do ok. Before the “bust of excess” the comic industry seemed strong enough to support so much. To me in 1987 everything seemed to point up for the comic industry.

Okay I give up. I am not being fanboyish or bias. Sales count to the bottom line but if I have a company I do not want so much of my sale being dependent on material that I do not own outright. What is foolish about that? Things you can do to generate income from that property is limited. If you go on and on about how new OYL titles are failures it is fair to say hey Marvel new book released around the same time did not do to well. There were quite a few fans that loved Antman. Maybe it is not about the “failure” of OYL but more about how new material is not doing to well in the market. That is not bias. If fans were more open to buying new material companies there would be less events in my opinion.

No comic company sells in a vacuum. If to note loosing a 100,000 seller it might be nice to note that 100,000 “non-event” book are not as easy to come by as they were in the past. The reports are form different people. To me the Marvel report seems to have more perspective and not gripe with Marvel. Yes there was a correct in the Titians blurb, but when DC talked about the new Titians book relaunch new never in the equation. That was made clear.

The sales report seems to be haterade for DC haters and to me it is encouraged. This seems to be a forum for them.

If you have DC books you like (Jonah Hex, Checkmate, Countdown and Blue Beetle) ask people to look at them. If you have friend that whine and complain about all the books they are buying and hate, but refuse to try a book they may enjoy. Find new friends.

Scalped and Exterminators rule!!!!

But the adage about statistics, while cute in and of itself, does nothing to advance one’s argument. In itself, it is NOT a true statement. Just like the statement “Even a broken clock is right twice a day” is cute, it is not true. A broken clock is no longer a clock. It may be repaired and become a clock again, but until it is fixed, it is not a clock.

Statistics can be wrong because of improper input. Statistics can be used in the wrong way by those trying to deceive others, but statistics cannot be lies.

I could see a case being made for 10 years ago (though I’d strongly disagree), but saying non-Marvel/DC comics were stronger 20 years ago than today is madness.

I think DC will learn that a perpetual universe-wide crossover doesn’t work. When you have one (or two) main books with a couple of crossovers spread out… that is what the people (apparently) want. I’m sure they’ll learn from their mistakes.

Oh, and pointing out how Marvel is doing bad stuff to prove how DC is doing good stuff… THAT is bias. Different people do the Marvel and DC trend charts and I don’t think either of them are biased, they are just fair.

Sorry to have to repeat this.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your captain speaking. We’re currently experiencing some turbulences and losing height. But don’t you worry: We’re still somewhat higher than we were thirty minutes after take-off.

Seriously: You’re absolutely right, DC’s average sales are still better than they were four years ago. And they’re still better than they were six years ago, as well. They’re probably worse than they were ten years ago, though. And they’re a lot worse than they were fifteen, or twenty, or thirty years ago. And they’re a fraction of what they were sixty years ago.

While all of that is valuable in terms of providing historical perspective, though, I find the more recent trends to be more relevant to the question how the publisher is doing right now.

Again there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. Marvel and DC are selling more units now than they did a few years ago, but they are a far cry from what they were 15 – 40 years ago. There was a time that Archie was the biggest comic there was and Mad Magazine had over 1,000,000 subscribers. .25 for something you can move 500,000 of is ok, but for something you can move only 50,000 of is insane. Comic pros and historians, I have read, have said that a 50,000 sales book would be canceled back in the day by the major publishers. Now Publishers would kill to have a 50,000 book.

People are not idiots they do not get tricked into $2.99 over and over again for something they do not want. They may have biases and buying traits that lock them in to buying habits. If you need to have every issue of a comic to complete your run or every tie-in, that is between you and your wallet. If you need the Ghost Rider WWH tie-in to complete the event that is between you and your wallet. The “quality” of tie-in’s for major events have not changed in 25 years. They are what they are.

I am very happy with the quality of the books from DC. I wish the books I enjoyed sold more. I have a feeling that if DC changed to make its most adamant detractors happy, I would most likely be displeased with what they produce. From the tenor of many of there posts, it is hard for me to see DC being able to make them happy long term.

To me comics are better than they were 20 years ago. The paper, the art and the writing is fun. There are fewer option sadly. The “others” are not as strong as 10 – 20 years ago, but IDW, Dynamite, Boom Studios are putting out great stuff. I am not getting as much from SLG as I used to but I love Wonderland and Gargoyles. I wish Dark Horse and Image were stronger.

There are not as many fans now as in 1987, but there were not as many comic fans in 1987 as 1967. Was in because of crappy comics? Times just change. Companies adjust. DC is doing Tiny Titians to try to cultivate new fans. Direct to DVD movie are do for a new revenue stream.

To me it is a fun time to be a DC Comic fan. Has DC had missteps? Yes. But most of the bile and bad felling around DC to me at this point is done by DC haters. To be kind Amazon Attack did not turn out they way DC wanted but the level of bile on the web about it is not wanted. DC “failing” seems to be these haters’ dream. To them if DC would just make books they like they would be good. Right now DC seems to have to fight perception more than reality.

They’re selling better now because the price point is higher and DC is churning out 10x more titles than they were years ago. Circ figures are down on the regular books. Look at the numbers.

It’s like this: Comic-Man sales are down. What does DC do? They put out Countdown on a weekly basis and litter the market with dozens of useless crossovers, that makes up for the lost sales on Comic-Man’s book. So they never lose money, they just replace what you’re not buying with something else hypes as a ‘must buy’.

DC sells 30k of those useless Countdown tie ins at 2.99 a pop and if they sell ten of those titles, that’s an aggregate circ figure of 300,000. It yields the same figure, same revenue as if one Comic-Man book sold 300,000 copies.

Add that to the 80k people or so buying Countdown on a weekly basis, which yields an aggregate circ figure of about 320,000. Looking the bottom line, it yields the same result as if one of their failing regular monthly books sold 320,000 copies.

But don’t let that fool you into believing comics are selling better. They’re not, they’re just replacing what customers stopped buying with something they’ve tricked you into believing you ‘must’ buy.

Thing is, the quality isn’t any better on the Countdown bait and switch book they make you believe you need to buy than the Comic-Man book people stopped buying, and whose quality and sales are in the crapper. Comics aren’t getting better and neither is the quality, they’re just serving you from a different toilet with an increased price tag, hence the illusion that comics are selling better.

“Another Countdown tie-in. You can tell by the fact that the numbers aren’t doing anything they weren’t doing before.”

I’m surprised by this. I would SKIP a series I was already buying for the duration of its COUNTDOWN tie-in, if it came up.

The numbers themselves are not really that important for analysis purposes. As “The Beat” notes, its the trends that matter. The trends shows that DC backed the wrong horse (Countdown over Sinestro Wars), that more comics coming out doesn’t necessary create greater sales, and that gimmick events are temporary measures to simply good story telling (i like Mark Waid but Brave and Bold is boring, just flat out boring).

So rather then harp on the numbers, harp on the trends. That is where the true analysis and understanding can come from. Maybe if Didio did that more often rather then this silly shoot from the hip approach he currently has, he could right the ship (that and quit using artists notorious for always being late. And don’t get me started on the chicken scratch being called “art” from Kubert on Superman).

Events drive sales over 100,000. Only the top 3 or 4 books were over 100,000 this month.

If the current sales analysis offered at The Beat blog is any indication, DC Comics are slowly losing any titles selling above 100,000 copies… ”

- - -

If you look at the same sales charts. Outside of “event” bumps” the same could be said of Marvel. I am sorry if you said more in your post. Marvel may look for Anitia Blake and Stephen King for 100,000 sale ant not material they own.

No oen is making 100,000 sellers like they used to. To me this may be an industry problem not a DC problem.

Some people say they want a self contained and mostly one a done story but Jonah Hex, Brave and Bold and Detective do not do it for them. People want fun and whimsy but Blue Beetle and Welcome to Tranquility were for some reasons downers to them. I guess the Highwaymen was too complex and slow for people that wanted an adrenaline rush. The material that fans want is out there but they are not buying it. It is not all DC’s fault. Fans have to own up to a lot of it too.

It is so hard to get fans to try something new. Some may think westerns are stupid so they will never try Jonah Hex. They miss out on a fun book. Why couldn’t more Birds of Prey fans look at Welcome to Tranquility? Was there a lack of strong women to them? Some fans have bias and it is limiting them to try things they may like. Some whine about gimmicks, but good story and good art will only get you so far. Did Mr. Burbaker write better after Cap got killed? Sales say so . Fans need to support what they ask for. What should a company do when they see the sales on Manhunter and Spidergirl? The fuss raised by some fans over the “mistreatment” of JLI characters you would think Booster Gold would be a top ten book. It is not and far from it. It sales do not rate the talent that DC put on that book.

Again to me the sales articles have been very biased. The back and forth of Mr. Wood and Mr. Frisch over sales made the poem on DMZ sales look petty not “sprucing things up”. A spot on point made over and over and over again for no real reason is also petty. DC could have been petty over the Boys but they were not. I am happy they were professional because I still get to read a book I like. DC has Vertigo books that rate sales like the Boys. Many people that like the Boys could enjoy books like Scalped and Exterminators. The question is not why DC is not still publishing the Boys; it is why, outside of money, won’t many Boys readers look at books like Scalped and Exterminators.

Sales on big events seem to hide things to some people. How come DC can stick with book like Checkmate, Jonah Hex and Blue Beetle but Marvel cancels Antman and Blade. Outside of big events Marvel has not done that well. Heroes for Hire is gone and Moonknight sales are falling. Ultimate sales seem to be dropping like a rock.

If people want to be hateful and spiteful, fine. Blogs seem to be a great place for it. If you feel that everyone can go screw themselves until you get the book you want, fine. Just do not do this saying I am being fair and objective or say I am petty because I care. Because you are not having fun does not mean others are not.

I wish comics in general sold more but I have not had as much fun with DC comics now than I have had in years. I am not getting everything, I like but there is a lot that I like.