When in doubt, deal with the devil. A terrible story on so many levels!

Call me new to the comics scene (I’m only about seven years deep; didn’t get started until after college), but I’ve never known a Spider-Man without a Mary Jane. I thought their romance (in its many appearances in the many incarnations of the Spider-Man story) was *the* great romance of the Marvel U. So Spidey without MJ? It’s great power and great responsibility sans the other part of the story that was great.

I also thought that the best thing about Civil War was that it shook up the way the Marvel U characters were dealing with their realities–something that is, to me (as a new comics reader) fundamentally more interesting than stagnation. Reboots are for new series. If you’re going to keep telling the same story over and over… let Robin Hood shoot his arrow, put it together in a nice collection, hard bound, limited edition (with six different covers), and you’ll still get several years of sales off of the re-reads. I also loved the interplay with the regular Marvel U characters and the “new” series–like Runaways. A retcon this big doesn’t just impact one series, it impacts every series where Spiderman has ever shown up. That strikes me as bad storytelling.

I hardly think that’s the case. I started reading Spider-Man when I was 5. Spider-Man got married when I was 8. I had no problem with that development at all, nor did I have any problem with reading about a married Spider-Man, something I certainly couldn’t identify with at that age. I liked the stories, so I kept reading them, and I don’t see why any “actual permanent changes and growth” harm ones enjoyment of the story whether Amazing #545 was someone’s first Spidey comic or their 1000th.

If apparently there was some great desire out there to return to an unmarried Spider-Man, why have all of his best-selling adventures take place while he was married? Does Joe Quesada think Spider-Man #1 would have sold 10 million instead of 2 if only Mary Jane wasn’t around?

The news of this sudden rewriting of the Spider-Man mythos seems remarkably poor. This is either a cheap stunt intended to play out for a number of issues as the lead-in story to new weekly issue “experiment”, designed to be reverted or it is a move by a corporate publisher with no institutional memory of the damage it wreaked upon its franchise character with the Clone Saga. If it truly is a purposeful editorial change, I think that the bleeding of readers that will occur will be very similar to that which accompianied the Clone Saga and will be eventually be reversed to save the property. How long that would be would be dependant on the stubborness and ego of the management.
However, I cynically believe that stunt is more probable and think the comics community is being played. For those that care, and for some reason inexplicable to me, I find myself in that number, don’t invest emotionally or financially in this stupid, tasteless, inelegant and disrepectful editorial fiasco.

And yeah, the door was left open to undo OMD–I think Marvel learned the lessons of the Clone Saga and Heroes Reborn well enough to leave an escape route for the next editorial regime–or if fan outrage impacts sales badly enough during the current regime…

Really??

You’re kiddin’, right?

Remember guys, you can’t take these characters with you when you die. Let it go. Read these books for either nostalgia or for a brief period of escapism.

I would disagree that serialized adventure comics can be categorized as literature as you define it here. What you say about literature is true, but those character progressions can only be sustained within a narrative that has an ending. In a novel or a short story, the characters learn and change and grow and then we as readers stop being privy to their lives. And good thing, too, because in real life those changes are temporary, the lessons are fleeting, and that momentary adventure will swing back to mundanity. The ending of the story lends the work meaning and purpose. We know that Robin Hood must eventually shoot that arrow to find his burial spot and without that moment, without that point at which his time runs out, none of his stories carry any real weight.

If a story has no ending it becomes more like the old movie serials — the character is a vehicle for some thrills and twisty plot points and all kinds of good old fashioned fun. But we all want these heroes without end to somehow maintain that level of change and growth and excitement all the time. How many times can a hero change and grow before none of these changes even make sense any more? Yet fans still clamor for those changes, and then get angry when the changes come.

Tellers of serialized stories would be better served taking inspiration from those movie serials, in my opinion. Use these characters as legends or popular myths, and use the archetypes to tell however many ridiculous interpretations and permutations as they wish. Marvel Adventures, Ultimate, Spidey Loves Mary Jane — whatever it is, make enjoyable take-offs on an established theme and just have fun.

If everyone insists on these characters having some sort of consistent “reality” then please give them the respect of a proper ending as well.

The JMS came on the book and I was curious.

For the bulk of his run he did something great, he told a story with a single voice. It wasn’t spider-man by editorial committee or edict, it was Joe Straczynski, telling a story. The only other book I read like it was Morrison’s run on X-men.

Then a couple years ago the New Avengers/Civil War crossover hoo-ha started. I don’t read those books, but suddenly their chocolate was in my peanut-butter. At first it was just annoying. More and more the voice of the book was diluted by these big silly event/stunt things. And finally the devil comes in. I wasn’t angry, I was laughing at how ridiculous it became.

Look, Joe Quesada wants Peter Parker to be single, hitting on chicks in his spandex. Ok, that’s great, but don’t hand me this bullcrap about younger readers. Younger readers are reading Marvel adventures and the Ultimate books. Actually, they’re reading Manga and could give a crap about Spider-Man except for the movies. This was done because guys in their 30’s and 40’s want to see their hero scoring with hot caroon girls and not married. That’s just ridiculously creepy on so many levels.

JMS wrote a book wherein the wife of the hero was as interesting a character as the hero himself. He wrote her with nuance and style. Hell, he made Aunt May interesting, something the films can’t even seem to do. He told a great 8 year story. It’s over now and I’m done buying the book. The “Brand New Day” looks creepy, is built on a horrible narrative device (you lost your true love but hey look at all the hot new girls!) and looks to feature more and more diluted voices from the writing teams.

Just to toss a cherry on top, isn’t this another kind of women in refridgerators? The wife must go so the story can go on! Maybe guys like Quesada, a cheesecake artist if I ever saw one, just can’t get their heads around writing female characters who aren’t simply there to look pretty and preen about the heroes.

It’s the reason my buying habits tend towards the indy stuff. I want a story from a person, not something devised to serve editorial interests.

Well MJ’s mysterious whisper to Mephisto (among other things) seems to leave that door wide open. (Yes I actually read the issue.)
After 35 years of reading this crap off and on, one thing has become abundantly clear to me: Marvel is about the money first and foremost, with good story-telling a very distant second.
And yes, I think Loki or Beyonder *would* have been a better choice to facilitate this turn of events. The Mephisto thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. (He pulled the same thing on Norrin Radd as I recal; did the Surfer *ever* find out about that?)

As someone suggested a few weeks ago, I’m waiting for Aunt May to get run over by the Lizard in that beat-up Chevy van. (D’oh!)

Truth to tell, the Marvel Adventures books are, in tone and plot, closer to the 616 Spidey I grew up with (and what Quesada professes to be the core essence of Spidey), only without the illusion of progress that Stan and Jack and Steve and Johnny Romita fostered. I think that storytelling device has proven to be unworkable for decades of soap opera characterization and still remain believable…but, if you live by the sword of continuity you have to die by it too, I guess. I do wonder what would happen if Marvel just started publishing MASM stories in Amazing…would the long term fans feel ripped off because of the lack of emphasis on soap opera or “modern” storytelling?

I think it *would* be funny if all 46K of those outraged Spidey completists did boycott the book en masse and bought SPIDER-GIRL instead. Marvel would restore the marriage in a second.

One of the fundamental aspects of good literature is that a character & his situation must progress. And for the first time in decades, that was happening here. But once again, the hardcore fanboys win. God forbid a character face & overcome adversity to change, grow & adapt to new situations. Much better to have Spider-man (or any hero) beat the shit out of The Vulture (or any recurring villain) for the 347th time while deeply concerned that a) Aunt May needs her medicinal marijuana, b) Generic girlfriend #14 won’t give the time of day, c) Holy crap! Harry’s gonna don that stoopid Goblin suit again!

It’s bad enough that DC has constantly pick at the multiversal scab instead of just telling decent stories. I thought Marvel was better than to fall back on lame-ass retcons & giving into 40-year old fanboy demands of “gimmie my fix”.

Not that it makes much difference, but my days of reading Spider-man are done. Here’s hoping JMS can at least do what he wants over in THOR without much editorial/fan interference.

1. Spider-Man SHOULD NOT (a) age or (b) be married (with or without kids). So I’m glad the marriage is over.

2. I’m all for the marriage being magically retconned away. However, I HATE the WAY (the execution) they magically retconned it away. Peter and MJ would NEVER make a deal with Mephisto/the Devil no matter what the reason may be. They should have either used the Beyonder or Loki instead of Mephisto.

3. The way I see it, if so many of these vocal fans are so in favor of Spidey (a) being married (b) having kids and (c) aging then they would be reading the EXCELLENT AMAZING SPIDER-GIRL.

4. For those of you who say that ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN and MARVEL ADVENTURES SPIDER-MAN are the books to see a young single Spidey, I should point out that both those books DO NOT feature the REAL Spider-Man. The bottom line is that if Marvel and the fans were given the choice to keep only ONE version of Spidey, they would MOST LIKELY choose the 616 REAL Spider-Man. And judging by the rapidly plummeting sales of USM and the low sales of MASM (although the latter does better in other venues outside of the direct market) it’s a pretty safe bet who Marvel and their fans will put their money behind.

5. The reason why ASM sold much better then the other 2 Spidey titles is because ASM is the flagship book and it is where all of the “important” story’s happen.