Ah, the old “give ‘em an inch and they’ll take a mile” argument. My question in that diatribe: why does he need women and homosexuals to stop asking for things?

The Holocaust was fundamentally against Jews. Hitler made numerous comments about exterminating Jews who he believed had laughed at him before he came to power. The Nazis came up with the Final Solution in an effort to solve the “Jewish Question”. The murders of so many others were a bi-product of Hitler’s genocidal hatred against Jews. That is not to trivialize their deaths. Had people been more outraged by Hitler’s persecution of Jews, the murders of so many others would not have been possible.

I’m interested in reading Judenhass. Mr. Sim seems sincere and hopefully his work provokes thoughtful discussion on a topic that I care a lot about.

I don’t think he will. In the preview* he makes a point of focusing specifically on the anti-Jew aspect of the Holocaust. He doesn’t deny that “others” died as well, but he thinks that’s a side issue, because the Holocaust was fundamentally about the Jews. He attributes it to an “almost inevitable” vendetta against them in particular, rather than an opportunistic use of them as scapegoats to rally the German people in the face of national collapse. I happen to think there’s some truth to the latter explanation, and I think it carries a more general warning that we need to watch out for genocide of other kinds, but I can see where he’s coming from. And it’s not the popular image of Sim as the frothing misogynist homophobe.

*Here’s a thought people: instead of speculating, why not check?

I like movies as much as I do comics, does that mean I deserve Steven Seagal movies?

“And they would be wrong.”

Sez a member of that fandom.

It reminds you of a Borat bit? How ridiculous.
Just shows again that -for some people- the man can truly do nothing right.

Spence: “He also thinks he’s the greatest comic writer/artist ever.”

REALLY. And he’s claimed this WHERE?

Spence: “He’s so pompous, so self-important, that he considers himself a follower of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Only for Dave Sim is this possible.”

Wait a minute…DAVE is pompous? I’d say declaring someone else’s faith invalid (no matter how non-traditional it may be) is quite beyond pompous.
To me, Dave’s reconciled “synthesis” of those three major religions is one of the few areas where I think the man is on to something. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of world history should be able to at least comprehend where he’s coming from there.

Spence:”But I’d never say that women having the right to vote is wrong, or that all women are wicked, and that a man should only use a woman for one purpose”

Other than the voting thing, where has Dave ever said ANY of that?
“All women are wicked” - WHERE? And don’t toss the whole “emotional void” stuff out there, that’s NOT the same thing.
“All women are wicked.” Jeez.

Dave’s said plenty of controversial and perplexing things over the past decade. There’s ample material there to choose from if folks want to criticize the guy. I’d just like to see people stick to the things he’s actually said and stop making stuff up. It’s like saying “George Bush thinks no Muslim deserves to live.” Lots of people revile Bush for many reasons, but you only see those kinds of caricaturizing statements coming from the lunatic fringe.

And they would be wrong.

I used to be the biggest Dave Sim fan until I found out more about his views on life. Dave’s just inflating his ego by making it look like he’s the greatest American patriot (even though he’s Canadian). He also thinks he’s the greatest comic writer/artist ever. He also thinks he’s the greatest follower of religion because he has it all figured out. He’s so pompous, so self-important, that he considers himself a follower of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. Only for Dave Sim is this possible.

His views on women is disgusting. I admit, years ago when I was in high school and got totally burned by my first love, I liked how he said we shouldn’t put women on a pedestal. When it comes to your first love, you put too much hope in that person. Dave helped me see that I was wrong to invest too much of myself in one person. But I’d never say that women having the right to vote is wrong, or that all women are wicked, and that a man should only use a woman for one purpose (shocker that Dave is now celibate). The thing is, I got over my high school sweetheart, and Dave’s never healed from whoever it was that he got burned by. It’s time for him to grow up, only he’s just retreated more and more into his self-important role as savior to “real men”.

That’s not to say that the guy isn’t a genius when it comes to comic books. I think EVERY cartoonist needs to read Cerebus from High Society on. Especially when Gerhard came on board to do backgrounds. The layouts, the pacing, the typography (especially how impacted the scene in the panels, amazing)… he was writing the book on how to make a cool comic. Too bad Cerebus became unreadable near the end.

I’m so curious to read this Judenhass. I’m torn between a chance at seeing something brilliant versus supporting Sim and his ego.

Huh? Just two hours earlier you said this…

“I’m very happy to find out that he opposes the Holocaust. I was worried there for a while. “

I know that this was probably said tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek, but you certainly seem to be implying that you didn’t think him being pro-Holocaust was out of the realm of possibility, and I literally cringed when I read it. I’m with Marcus that “it’s a HUGE leap to suggest that he would even tacitly endorse genocide. Of ANY group.” Dave Sim’s views are out there, I’ll grant you, but I’ve never seen him say anything about killing people.

Even one quote would be better than none. Which is what you provided.

Your humorless rebuttal would be more worthy if it didn’t consist of the same “You’re misquoting / misrepresenting Dave Sim” line one always encounters in these discussions. (Boy’s about as literal-minded as a french letter…)

I don’t want to spend the next seventy hours citing Sim’s words back at him because it accomplishes nothing. We’ve had this discussion a dozen times or more. I’d much rather judge Sim on the basis of his work, not his rather disagreeable tendency to make an endless succession of categorical statements borne out of solipsism; the fact that he has tethered a large part of his body of work to his personality and worldview makes that difficult if not outright impossible. Which is why we’re all here now, hein?

I look forward to Judenhass as a possible, hopeful departure from that tendency, because it means we can finally start talking about what he does as opposed to what he says. The discussions that result will doubtless be more profitable to all, to say nothing of funnier.

IN one post you laud Sim as a defender of freedom and democracy. I said that might be stretching it a little bit.

It’s a big leap to claiming he endorses genocide and I have never ever thought such a thing. I’m sure Judenhaas will make us all cry.

Like I said I’ll lay it all out for you tomorrow.