Comments on: Child porn outlawed in Japan, manga okay

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by: jay

Wed, 28 May 2008 10:49:58 +0000

We are talking about ideas. They are supposedly protected under the constitution of the USA. Balderdash. The US is becoming increasingly oppressive and Europe and other countries truly are aware of freedom. Japan should have never cow towed to US led puritanical paranoia. This is a real market, backed by real people from ALL walks of life. Get used to it.

by: jay

Wed, 28 May 2008 10:49:19 +0000

by: ralph

Sat, 03 May 2008 11:29:07 +0000

Re: Marcus ” Scott Bieser: “Suppose an adult victim of child molestation wanted to do an auto-bio graphic story — he or she could be jailed for depicting the very crime(s) committed!”

–This is already going on in Florida, where many of the prosecutions are of children for making sexual drawings or photos of themselves in its so-called juvenile justice custody system.

More: The Court of Appeals ruled that two teeanagers that photographed themselves while having legal sex were sex offenders under the kiddie porn laws (police found the photos in a search of the house).

Canada and Japan will suffer the same.

by: Jason A. Quest

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:04:25 +0000

“Unworkable” is exaggerating quite a bit, because the Photoshop/Poser defense is rarely attempted. But that’s that legislative rationale.

by: Paul O'Brien

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:30:40 +0000

Yes, Jason’s right - the UK laws have a similar exception for “pseudo-photographs.” The idea is to avoid the courts getting bogged down in arguments about where a particular photo came from and whether it might have been photoshopped. It allows the prosecution to get a conviction simply by showing that the photo appears on the face of it to be genuine. If they had to prove the origin of every photo, the law would be unworkable.

by: Marcus Lusk

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:00:38 +0000

Scott Bieser: “Suppose an adult victim of child molestation wanted to do an auto-bio graphic story — he or she could be jailed for depicting the very crime(s) committed!”

A VERY good point.
You can bet something just like that would happen.

by: pulphope

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:19:33 +0000

I agree with Mr. Kolchalka. FWIW.

by: Jason A. Quest

Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:01:28 +0000

The Supremes drew a line between real and virtual, but Congress also drew one between between virtual and drawn. The 2003 legislation banning the possession of “child pornography” made without the involvement of children refers specifically to material that was “indistinguishable” from photos of actual children. It goes on to say, “This definition does not apply to depictions that are drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting minors or adults.” What Congress was trying to do was to head off any legal defense that tried to argue that actual kids were computer-generated, so they were careful (to avoid Supreme Court review) to give a free pass to anything in the nonphotographic visual arts. This means that in either Japan or the U.S., comics/manga of this sort are legal. I understand why people are squicked out by that, but for the sake of free expression, I think that’s the way it should be.

by: Scott Bieser

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:14:23 +0000

The matter of child pornography raises two different issues that can and probably should be addressed separately: The exploitation of actual children in the production of porn, and the whetting of pedophiles’ sexual appetites.

With regard to the former, there can be no question that those who molest children for any reason, including for the production of kiddie porn, ought to be prosecuted. They should count themselves lucky that they get to have a trial. If I caught someone molesting my kids the perp wouldn’t live that long.

Drawn or computer-rendered kiddie porn, OTOH, raises different issues. Assuming that actual children were not involved with the production, the only objection that can be made is that by whetting the appetites of pedophiles, such material may encourage these creeps to satisfy those appetites with real children. But then similar objections can be raised against depictions of violence, sexual and otherwise, involving adults, or depictions of many other illegal activities.

I’m pretty sure that most of us don’t want to go down that path.

Consider also that a ban against drawings of child sexual abuse cannot, in practice, discriminate between depictions intended to titillate and depictions intended to shock and offend. Suppose an adult victim of child molestation wanted to do an auto-bio graphic story — he or she could be jailed for depicting the very crime(s) committed!

I find any sort of kiddie porn creepy, but the Supreme Court ruling drawing a clear line between photographic kid porn versus drawings/renderings is the best way to deal with a difficult matter.

by: ChaosMcKenzie

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:41:29 +0000

There are also differing age resistrictions to different types of sex in Cananda. Sodomy isn’t legal until 18…ect…

by: Paul O'Brien

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:52:38 +0000

According to Wikipedia, the age of consent in Canada was raised to 16 earlier this month. However, they also have an exception for couples whose ages are less than two years apart.

by: Al

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:08:28 +0000

Age of consent happens to be 14 here in Canada.

I was quite surprised to find this out. I believe it was mentioned in the media relating to a case before the courts.

If my memory serves me correctly, the case involved a teen runaway being permitted to make her own decisions regarding consenting relationship with an adult while she was at the age of 14.

I believe that there is growing support for raising the age of consent to 16.

by: Paul O'Brien

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:38:43 +0000

MLO: That’s not correct. The age of consent in Japan is 13, but they also have other laws against adults having sex with minors. So in fact, 13 is just the point at which it ceases to be statutory rape and becomes the lesser crime of having sex with a minor. (Unless you’re both teenagers, in which case they just don’t regard it as a matter for the criminal courts.) In practical effect, this is fairly similar to the laws applied in much of Europe.

by: The Beat

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:09:59 +0000

I cleaned up this thread a little. Everyone play nice!

by: MLO

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:54:16 +0000

This is one of the main reasons that I won’t ever buy any Manga or Anime that hasn’t been vetted in some way - whether by reviewers or a buyer I trust. I have had a few very unpleasant surprises over the years.

I don’t like porn of any kind - but this stuff is just sick. (I get that adult porn is between consenting adults and none of my business.) It sounds like Japan has some major issues. I believe their age of consent is also ridiculously low - like 10 for girls.

by: Jean-Baptiste Soufron

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:24:59 +0000

Once again, I am sorry, but a country where you can find pictures of children being sodomized by adults has a problem ! And these children are victims.

by: Al

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:20:35 +0000

Having said all we have said above, however, we could still say tthat there IS an element of creepiness to the particular manga comics that feature teenage schoolgirls, coincidentally drawn so they happen to show their panties in panel after panel.

I don’t mean the tentacle motif, just the, uh, well, school type ones.

Oh, okay, they are meant to be read by teenage boys. Oh, okay, but aren’t they still bought by adults?

If these were books of photos, and not cartoony big eye drawings of the teen girls, it would invite a whole different interpretation.

by: Bartholomew Fair

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:20:07 +0000

You know snoid, I wouldn’t like it if someone drew a picture of my wife getting shot in the face, but somehow I don’t think that justifies banning art that depicts someone getting murdered.

by: Torsten Adair

Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:06:05 +0000

In a democracy, the pronoun is WE. What do WE find offensive. What must WE do to protect others from getting hurt.
Democracy works best with an educated and engaged populace. Usually, extremes of opinion are averaged out and the general consensus prevails. Sometimes the average is the lowest common denominator.
Political change is measured in small steps over generations. Nuclear disarmament, environmentalism, gender equality… Japanese society is extremely homogeneous and resistant to outside influences. Eventually, they might follow the other countries. Or they may decide that within their country, child pornography has no or little harm upon their society, or that the pictures help abate actual sexual abuse. I do not condone it, but I respect their democracy.