Please check YOUR facts.

George Perez has not done a regular superhero monthly in 20 years either. The last monthly super hero work George Perez did, was 20 years ago.

Since then, George has been more of a special projects kind of guy. Some might consider his work at Malibu on Ultraforce ’superhero’ but no, his work at Malibu falls under the same catagory as Crossgen, a universe of characters people couldn’t get into and if people can’t get into the universe of characters the stories are based on, the books won’t sell regardless of who is on the book.

But George has done plenty of work since his mainstream monthly superhero days, yes not all chart toppers but then the same can be said for many other once ‘great’ creators, whose name alone do not automatically make a book a top seller anymore.

The industry gave way to many spoiled, egomanical creators who decided to deliver work not when due but when they felt like it. Those are the superstar creators of today but as we’re quickly finding out with these ‘Superstars’ is that what burns 2x as bright can burn out 2x as fast, especially when they don’t deliver.

The difference is George is a legend and still, a master. Yes, there are people today who don’t like his style but the same can be said about any artist at any time.

So for people to go on trashing him, his 30+ year career or his ability to carry a book is an insult not only to him but to the LEGION of admirers who have kept buying comic books for over 30 years… just to see what new work this master will produce.

Personally, I have little interest in modern comics and would have stopped buying comics a long, long time ago if not for George Perez’s presence in the marketplace so don’t underestimate his draw.

The fact that he’s still in the trenches doing monthly work when so many once great artists have vanished and the new working artists just don’t deliver, is more of an attestment to the man George Perez is than anything else.

You are correct though, for the majority to buy, the key is putting George on the proper book. George hadn’t done regular mainstream monthly superhero books before his return to Avengers, which sold excellent.

To pick up on that Avengers sales momentum, DC’s decision makers should have followed it up with something spectacular (The New Teen Titans graphic novel seemed to strike an exciting chord with many) but instead, gave him piecemeal work here and there, then, put him on Brave and Bold, a comic that didn’t exactly light fires of excitment when news hit.

It was just one anonymous poster impersonating various people, each time providing the Byrne board as a back-link; a grudge, presumably.

Please, check your timeline and re-read what I said:

“if you take away his Avengers and Avengers/JLA, the exceptions to the trend, he hasn’t sold a book at a high level in twenty years. ”

Avengers came first, not JLA/Avengers. It sold. He did some CrossGen. It didn’t sell. He did JLA/Avengers, it sold. He’s on Brave and the Bold. It’s selling OK, but not a blockbuster.

It is not a knock on Perez’s talent to say that his name alone cannot sell a book, just a statement of fact. This is not the 80s, when Perez could turn bad-sellers like Teen Titans and Wonder Woman into top sellers. If DC put Waid and Perez on Hawkman, Aquaman, the Atom or any other 2nd stringer, would the book sell? It’s a safe bet that the Legion project with Crisis tie-ins and Johns writing it will sell better, but that is DC using Perez wisely, which they have not really done since his return.

Mark Waid’s storyarc hasn’t really grabbed me, and I dare say many others haven’t been taken with it either. It has aspirations of being an ‘epic’, important event but placed against the ceaseless sturm und drang of whatever Crisis DC are onto now, it feels small and insignificant; pointless even. Then, George Perez’s departure from that ‘dream team’ after ten issues makes the book start to resemble a trembling house of cards, one that was never that well stacked to begin with.

The Brave and the Bold should, in theory, have been a massive success - big name creators, big characters and smaller fan-favourites alike crossing paths and, at least to begin with, a vocal demand for the product. Somewhere along the way though, through either the lateness, the story direction, the ‘feel’ or some combination, the product failed to deliver on its promises and the expectations - and sales - faded alongside it. Maybe the team-up book is dead. Maybe the audience has moved on from the type of story Waid is trying to tell. Maybe the moon is not in the fourth house of Orion and the blood sacrifice failed to awaken the Elder Gods of comic sales. For whatever reason, it appears, to me at least, the book is now being kept alive to finish the main story and save face but I don’t see it lasting a great deal longer.

The book has several flaws that I was willing to overlook because of its compensations. It takes its time revealing the connection between the stories, and even when it does, that connection is a tenuous one and not especially stirring. The Destiny Book was a clever MacGuffin, but only a handful of the characters get a chance to respond to it in any way. Megistus’ personality, motivation and background are too vaguely defined for him to engage the reader as the best villains do.

The Challengers’ appearance in issue #6 is almost completely deus ex machina for anyone who doesn’t know about their “borrowed time” origin story– and that’s a major flaw, because they’re crucial to the climax. Issue #10 has so much going on that even Waid and Perez can’t quite fit it all in. And I really don’t know how the book’s gonna keep going once a less detail-oriented artist takes over.

All these things may be driving newer readers away. Or even older ones. Hell, I don’t know.

But for all that, it’s still great fun. It’s the first thing I’ve experienced since Justice League Unlimited that really makes me feel like a shared universe is a strength, not just something to work around.

During the time of JLAvengers, George was at Crossgen. Crossgen was nice and innovative but their books weren’t exactly chart toppers. Crossgen published books featuring a universe of books that were a bit confusing, few people were able to get into them, hence Crossgen no longer publishes.

After Perez did JLAvengers and Crossgen was no more, he was put on Avengers and that book sold very, very well.

After completing a 3 year commitment on a best selling book, Perez was brought back to DC under the belief that he was going to complete the long awaited, long requested New Teen Titans graphic novel. He was jazzed, fans were jazzed.

Instead, he was doing assorted pages for the patchwork quilt book that became known as Infinite Crisis and after that, Brave and The Bold. The Brave and The Bold… something that didn’t exactly have people swinging from the rafters with excitment.

In rereading this thread, I can’t believe the number of people who are so vocal in their complaints about the creators, two A list greats such as Mark Waid and George Perez.

Mark Waid is an excellent writer. His Flash underperformed because he was handed book featuring a situation about the character that was completely out of his hands.

DC editiorial played bait and switch on the readers, killing off a popular character, replacing it with a rebooted book featuring a lead character DC planned on killing after 13 issues — 13 issues of some of the worst writing and art since the start of the new millenium. That pissed off many, many people.

Yet Waid did the best he could. He took the baton he was handed and made the best of a really shitty, unpopular situation. Of course, the garrish artists used to interpret his stories (who changed 2x in 6 months) probably didn’t help since comics are a visual medium.

People complaining about George Perez?

I think people need to look at the decision to put someone of Perez’s stature on a book like Brave and The Bold to begin with. When I heard Perez was going on B&B, I was left scratching my head. As The WRAITH said, team up titles were never, ever chart toppers.

Why aren’t people complaining about Geoff Johns and Alex Ross’ JSA not selling in the realm of Kingdom Come’s numbers? It’s a Kingdom Come sequel? Why aren’t people complaining about the legendary Jim Starlin’s DEATH of the New Gods underperforming? Jim Shooter’s Legion? Jim Shooter is a man that while running Valiant, was publishing books that had both DC AND Marvel running for their money. Gail Simone is on her A Game on WW, a fan favorite writer who people begged to be on that book. Why isn’t WW selling better?

People need to look at the individuals setting the tone and direction for DC’s whole underperforming line because it affects popularity, consumer perception and sales for the entire brand. It’s sad that some great A list creators’ reputations are now being tarnished; placed under the microscope because of the unpopular, head scratching decisions made from the editorial leaders whose thinking has affected sales on DC’s entire brand.

When was the last time Waid sold a book above this level based on his name? He was fired from the F.F. the first time for putting up numbers like this after the $.09 issue. The lone exception is 52 where Waid was one of four writers.

George Perez is great. However, if you take away his Avengers and Avengers/JLA, the exceptions to the trend, he hasn’t sold a book at a high level in twenty years.

This is a nostalgia book with no core characters to be nostalgic about. This series had good art and a weak story.

I’d like to add that anthologies and team-ups don’t sell well for Marvel or DC. Also this title was the 13th best selling title for DC in February placing just below Superman. Given the creators, the format and DC’s overall sales, I don’t see the surpise over the sales on this title.

“It’s sad that a serious discussion of comics issues has to turn into name calling and skullduggery. Is this really what you think of yourselves?”
_____

Well, Heidi, we ARE fanboys.

There are always going to be people who don’t like a book, just at there are with movies. (No Country For Old Men only gets a 94 at Rotten Tomatoes.) Fortunately for them, they can vent their spleen on the internet.

I wish I had done a screen cap earlier so I could see which posts were deleted. It would be nice to know who to ignore in the future at other sites.

The real Matt Hawes comments remain.

It’s sad that a serious discussion of comics issues has to turn into name calling and skullduggery. Is this really what you think of yourselves?

Second off, I am deleting a bunch of idiotic posts here. NO NAME CALLING.

Third off, I don’t allow spoofing but I have no idea what is going on with this Matt Hawes business. I am putting these comments into moderation until someone explains in email.

People are wrecking on George Perez’s art? He’s THE quintessential comic book artist. But I guess when you are used to being force fed photos of models and screencaps of porn that have been glitzed over in Photoshop, and been told it’s ‘WIDESCREEN’, then you really wouldn’t have a clue.

And why would anyone impersonate Matt Hawes? I know Matt, he’s a heckuva nice guy.

See what I did there? I don’t like the comic book you like. Wild! OMG, we don’t agree!

The only reason this is getting a bunch of attention is because a couple of the people who happen to like Brave & the Boring are Graeame and Heidi, and they have popular websites, so they’re giving it some attention. I like Exterminators and the Intimates, and I didn’t start an outcry or try to have some kind of half-assed intellectual debate about why a comic that I liked was getting cancelled.

This is just pointless, and I don’t know why it irritates me, but seriously: Brave & The Bold. Not enough people like it to buy it. Just like every other comic that ever doesn’t sell well. Should we start comment boards about all of them? Oh wait, they already exist, on the DC webpage and a million other places.

Oh, and just to Tony Bedard–The Wire was a brilliant show. The Brave & the Bold isn’t fit to be mentioned anywhere near it.

I understand the comments some people make about George Perez’s artwork, but I love his work. I love his attention to details. I love that his characters’ faces are each unique and that their body postures and expressions are extensions of the characters’ personalities and powers. He’s like a one-man Disney animation team! He puts a lot of attention into his work that demands that the reader slow down and pay attention themselves, and that subtle invitation might be enough to turn people off.

Meanwhile, I like how Waid and Perez are using characters like the Challengers of the Unknown in new and exciting ways. I like how they show Batman as being less of a jerk in his relationships with other heroes. I like a lot of things about this book, but one thing I’m less crazy about is how stories don’t seem to flow easily from one character team-up to the next. For example, in the early days of Marvel Team-Up the reader followed Spidey as he tried to capture the villain Morbius; as each issue came out, Spidey would meet a new hero who would help or hinder him in his pursuit of Morbius. (A similar pattern was used in the early issues of Marvel Two-In-One as the Thing dealt with the appearance of Wundarr.) The focus was smaller and only Spidey acted as the anchor from issue to issue. With Brave and Bold, Batman and Green Lantern team up then separate in their pursuit of the bad guys; Batman meets up with Blue Beetle and the Legion of Super-Heroes while Green Lantern meets Supergirl (who meets up with Lobo for an issue) then Green Lantern and Supergirl hook up with Adam Strange who hook up with Batman and then the Challengers show up to help save the day. It’s a lot of going back and forth and cool characters and great designs and nice characterizations, but if there’s ever a book that screams out for a tpb collection it’s this one. B&B’s compressed storytelling and attention to details make me want all of the cool stuff all in one place so I can appreciate it better.

– Matt

I keep hearing people COMPLAIN about today’s comics being “mindless”. Lots of them. Especially ones who are annoyed Brave & Bold and comics like it aren’t selling more like the “mindless” comics do. Then you label Grant Morrison as The Enemy when his JLA was a straightforward “heroes punch evil villains and things explode” title.

So I have no idea what you’re talking about here and asking for.

– Matt

That said, there are some of the “modern” storytelling that bothers me because now the writers write for the format of the Trade Paperback. Barebones. What goes into the monthly books has to fit into the other format too so they have to write for it and sometimes it compares to having turned “Three’s Company” into a 3 moive trillogy and it doensn’t work at all. Back in the “day” you didn’t have that format of the TPB, so the writing reflected that - stories were self contained etc. etc. But, those who read Usagi Yogimbo know you can have the self contained and the TPB all in one neat package.