That’s precisely what I took from his response. I also took his near-insistence that we start sending him less-finished ideas pronto as a compliment, but I wasn’t dumb enough to do it.

“Also, like I said as well, if you’re a one-hit wonder, you’ll always be a one-hit wonder regardless of what kind of deal you had. If you’re good enough you should be able to survive a few pitfalls along the way.”

I’m not interested in beating up on old Ian … but I don’t entirely agree with this. Siegel & Shuster may have been one-hit wonders … but their one hit, SUPERMAN, has earned countless BILLIONS for Time-Warner. To hear Harry Donnenfeld’s son years later (in an interview), he believed that Siegel and Shuster were these terrible ingrates … how dare they expect money in exchange for the honor of working for DC Comics?

As for saving your best idea, sometimes people don’t know their best idea, until it’s in front of the public. Likewise, the “great idea” you’re preparing might turn out to be your least popular property.

AMAZING … ordinarily, I’ve gotten the exact opposite impression. Editors want to know where you’re going with a concept, if it’s meant to be more than a one-shot thing.

Maybe he deemed it “too finished,” meaning there isn’t enough room for our marketing guys to F*** with your concept, and add all sorts of crap that doesn’t belong.

Good to hear you clarify some of those things, and I’m sorry that I inferred meaning you did not intend. Myself and a couple of my friends have taken some ownership in putting out a good message for new creators. We do it weekly in our podcast and also in our book (so you got a free and paid route to our advice if you are interested in it).

I don’t think I know DJ any better than anyone else. But I’ve been privy to his bullshit ranting since he signed with Platinum. He never thought he was going to be an overnight success. He just saw an opportunity and he milked it as far as it would go. And he was willing to tout the company line to keep in good graces as long as he could. Shit went sour, and he turned on them long enough to get his payments. Now he’s out the door and if HBN ever makes any money, hopefully he’ll get the cut he was promised from any profits.

Similarly, I didn’t say that there is only one business model for webcomics; I’ve been following webcomics models since the folks at Abba Dabba were selling PDFs. Again, I was talking about what the newcomers get told in these situations, and even in this thread we see things like “So the next time you create a comic, stop. Put it up on the web yourself. Design some cool merchandise to go with it that you can sell”, which I think meets the description. (Only vaguely relevant digression: I think your “I beat Tetris” shirt is my favorite webcomics shirt I’ve seen.)

You may well know DJ better than I; I think I may have briefly met him once, but am not certain. Nothing I’ve seen online from him tells me that he was expecting overnight success - he did work that got himself paid and published, and that’s a significant step in building a career. Might his time and effort been better used in some other direction? Perhaps. But he achieved some of his goals - at a cost.

It seems to me that these days. All the traditional channels are still there and have better deals. I have many friend who work for hire out of marvel and dc and love it. In addition there are so Manu more opportunities to successfully self publish or web publish.

It’s unfair to paint all successful webcomics as tee shirt salesmen parading as comic artists. There is a wide variety of business models and revenue streams being implemented online. Its not all tee shirts.

The problem is age-old: people are just looking for the quick and easy path to overnight success that these snakes are peddling. Some of them, as in he case with DJ Coffman, even get hired to assist with the peddling.

Its all hard work and a little luck. No matter what way you go. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Nat, with *you* I’ll respectfully suggest we simply disagree.

If they’re living up to the deal, then he is likely to aim any disappointment at himself; after all, he agreed to the deal. That’s a very different situation than when they aren’t. As such, it doesn’t sound short-sighted. It sounds like taking responsibility for one’s own actions.

Ian, this technique you have of advancing your stance not through some logical argument, but just by stating something as if its supposed to carry weight in itself, that’s not apt to have much effect in a conversation where people aren’t already seeing things from your point of view. The fact that you say “frickin’” isn’t likely to make others dismiss Hero By Night any more than your calling for the end of the invocation of Siegel and Shuster is going to make them seem less relevant. That you claim there will never be another Eastman and Laird is not apt to convince people that it’s true. In discussions like this, it’s best to show your work — if there is work to be shown.

Have you ever heard of a calculated risk?

I know ever since the Image revolution it’s been jammed down creator’s throats that every single highly derivative idea that they ever come up with is as precious as a little snowflake, but c’mon. Not for nothin’, but this “Hero by Night” comic, the guy has a frickin’ power-ring for christ’s sake!

I’ll just leave it at that. I think we lionize this shit a little too much.

I know you think I’m bullshit, but I know groupthink when I see it.

I’m sure Ian’s a nice guy, and I suppose he could mean well, but I’m told he has a history of doing this. If he’s the devil’s advocate, the Forces of Good should take everything they can to court right this very minute.

A shitty deal is just a shitty deal. Defending the people who enter into these deals as doing so because they have no other option isn’t every convincing because in almost every case they do, and is totally beside the point because no one is attacking them! In fact, I think I’ve personally said twice now that I sympathize with creators making less than perfect decisions, because sometimes that’s what we all do. Evan said much the same thing. In other words, I’m not against DJ Coffman, I want to see him do well and not have to suffer these hassles. I might disagree with DJ, but that’s not the same as wanting to see him fail. I mean, if he’s OK with everything now just because they forked over cash that was his all along, well, that’s as shockingly short-sighted as his rudely stated insistence months back that everything was going to go great.

Thanks to everyone who chimed in.

Sheesh!

So much for there being no insider-bias in the comics community. Note to everyone on the outside, don’t be like me. Don’t have an opinion. Please read the press release before commenting.

Wow, why would anyone ever argue with me? Well, let’s just make sure we all get the same press releases so there is nothing left to argue about from now on. Whatevz.

Publishers everywhere are looking for (what they think are) really great ideas and usually don’t publish anything less. So if you want to get published it’s generally your best idea that will get you published. Anything less typically gets you no where.

Tom & Heidi say: Anyone who would sign these contracts is nuts, don’t touch them with a ten foot pole. There are always better options.

Ian says: But sometime there might not be better options, and sometime the last option (self-pub) might not be a promising avenue.

Tom & Heidi say: No! No! No! Creator’s rights, uber alles!

Ian says: but, but, but…

Tom & Heidi say: There you go being loadmouth no-nothing Ian again! Shut up and no your role!

Ian says: But I like your blogs! (wink)

However I do appreciate, in these rough economic times, all the attention being paid to public transport.

That’s really waht I was trying to get at… some 2o posts later. Sorry about that.

I’m just playing devil’s advocate. I’m not saying that Tom & Heidi’s advice is bad advice. Actually, it’s probably good advice for most situations. I’m just trying to illustrate some situations where dealing with one of these contracts could be a positive experience.

It’s like joining the Army. It’s probably a bad idea, but if you know how to watch your ass you might be able to turn it into a productive stepping stone.

On the other hand, thanks to the Internet, self-publishing (by which I am referring to getting one’s work out in public, never mind making any $$) is nowhere near the financial horror story it was way back when I was a young artist with wonky delusions. So there are always… possibilities.

And Ian (hi Ian!): Platinum didn’t rub me the wrong way, they simply did not have available the terms I was interested in. The end.

I’m not waiting for any bus — to take the analogy to a slightly silly extreme, I’m keeping an eye out for a ride, but I may not necessarily take it. Maybe I’ll just walk. Or order another beer. Better those options than to get aboard with a drunk bus driver and find myself down the road lying in a twisted, smoking wreck . (Man, did I say “slightly” silly? Never mind.)