Comments on: The questions we face http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/ The News Blog of Comics Culture Mon, 23 Nov 2009 07:33:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: Cary Coatney http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2733043 Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:56:48 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2733043 No tipping allowed? ~ Coat No tipping allowed?

~

Coat

]]> by: Mark Coale http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725573 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:08:40 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725573 "Massage parlors that offer a thirty minute session with a happy ending included for no additional charge has a better long lasting entertainment value than a 32 page Marvel comic." Insert fan wanking joke here. “Massage parlors that offer a thirty minute session with a happy ending included for no additional charge has a better long lasting entertainment value than a 32 page Marvel comic.”

Insert fan wanking joke here.

]]> by: Cary Coatney http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725490 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 02:11:18 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725490 I consider the Deposit Man to be an alternative comic book. An alternative to the usual DC or Marvel tripe that no one can no longer afford (not including Jonah Hex or The Brave & The Bold). Marvel Comics selling their junk @ $ 3.99 a pop - WITH ADs for a lousy ten to fifteen minute block of entertainment. I do a 32 page comic book with barely a advertisement in sight from cover to cover for a mere $2.50 that can last for at least a half hour. What the bloody hell has the world come to?? Massage parlors that offer a thirty minute session with a happy ending included for no additional charge has a better long lasting entertainment value than a 32 page Marvel comic. ~ Coat I consider the Deposit Man to be an alternative comic book.

An alternative to the usual DC or Marvel tripe that no one can no longer afford (not including Jonah Hex or The Brave & The Bold).

Marvel Comics selling their junk @ $ 3.99 a pop - WITH ADs for a lousy ten to fifteen minute block of entertainment. I do a 32 page comic book with barely a advertisement in sight from cover to cover for a mere $2.50 that can last for at least a half hour. What the bloody hell has the world come to??

Massage parlors that offer a thirty minute session with a happy ending included for no additional charge has a better long lasting entertainment value than a 32 page Marvel comic.

~

Coat

]]> by: larrymarder http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725306 Tue, 16 Dec 2008 00:28:47 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725306 Well over twenty years ago at a Christmas party at Mike Gold's house, in the midst of a conversation quite similar to the above thread; Max Allan Collins said something to me that I will never, ever forget. "We are independent because we have no alternative." 'Nuff said true believers! Well over twenty years ago at a Christmas party at Mike Gold’s house, in the midst of a conversation quite similar to the above thread; Max Allan Collins said something to me that I will never, ever forget.

“We are independent because we have no alternative.”

‘Nuff said true believers!

]]> by: Torsten Adair http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725177 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:51:25 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725177 Image doesn't publish alternative comics? What about "True Story Swear to God"? True, small press is going one of two ways: webcomics or trade publishing. Usually, the webcomic will progress until it reaches critical mass, and then a trade collection will be issued. Or somebody notices the webcomic, and hires the creator for something else. Regarding the bottom of the Top 300, it took sales of 4,230 or more copies to make the list last month. How many Diamond accounts are there? Also, there's a new demographic of consumer, thanks in part to Free Comic Book Day and Hollywood. A few months ago, while shopping at Midtown Comics Times Square, I noticed a mother reminiscing over some old Harvey comics. So I mentioned the new trade collections, and tried to show her an example, but they were out. (Midtown, it should be noted, has two bays of all-ages trades located at the beginning of their GN shelves, and offers an incredible selection of every type of comic.) Retailers are less likely to order in a copy of an alternative title if that copy can not be returned for credit. Trades are much easier to merchandise, and will usually get better press and notice. Image doesn’t publish alternative comics? What about “True Story Swear to God”?

True, small press is going one of two ways: webcomics or trade publishing. Usually, the webcomic will progress until it reaches critical mass, and then a trade collection will be issued. Or somebody notices the webcomic, and hires the creator for something else.

Regarding the bottom of the Top 300, it took sales of 4,230 or more copies to make the list last month. How many Diamond accounts are there?

Also, there’s a new demographic of consumer, thanks in part to Free Comic Book Day and Hollywood. A few months ago, while shopping at Midtown Comics Times Square, I noticed a mother reminiscing over some old Harvey comics. So I mentioned the new trade collections, and tried to show her an example, but they were out. (Midtown, it should be noted, has two bays of all-ages trades located at the beginning of their GN shelves, and offers an incredible selection of every type of comic.)

Retailers are less likely to order in a copy of an alternative title if that copy can not be returned for credit. Trades are much easier to merchandise, and will usually get better press and notice.

]]> by: Ryan Higgins http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725127 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 23:36:51 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2725127 I'm almost completely unable to sell books from Fantagraphics, Top Shelf, D&J, First Second, etc, despite stocking a variety of them. It's a rare day when I sell a copy of Love & Rockets! It's an area thing. Locally, Isotope and Comic Relief have a very different reader base that my store, and that's where those books are likely to sell. It's like asking why more Blockbusters don't rent/sell more small art-house films. It's just not the target audience for that type of material. I’m almost completely unable to sell books from Fantagraphics, Top Shelf, D&J, First Second, etc, despite stocking a variety of them. It’s a rare day when I sell a copy of Love & Rockets! It’s an area thing. Locally, Isotope and Comic Relief have a very different reader base that my store, and that’s where those books are likely to sell. It’s like asking why more Blockbusters don’t rent/sell more small art-house films. It’s just not the target audience for that type of material.

]]> by: Jack Harkness http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724846 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:31:23 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724846 I am shocked, yes, SHOCKED, that Spurgeon's third question didn't rate a mention in the Beat. Too close for comfort, perhaps. I am shocked, yes, SHOCKED, that Spurgeon’s third question didn’t rate a mention in the Beat. Too close for comfort, perhaps.

]]> by: Jackie Estrada http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724798 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:48:13 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724798 "Indie comic" has also referred to self-published comics such as Bone, Strangers in Paradise, Finder, etc. We still publish print issues of "Supernatural Law" (the latest, #45, published in July featured Troma's Toxic Avenger and Lloyd Kaufman), although issues are becoming farther apart, because of all the reasons everyone's already cited. The series now has a pretty good following online at www.supernaturallaw.com , where Batton has done both revised versions of older stories and brand-new stuff. Right now there's a new story unfolding, having to do with werewolf rights. I'm wondering of "Supernatural Law" is now the longest-running self-published print comic book series . . . More info on the history of the series at www.exhibitapress.com “Indie comic” has also referred to self-published comics such as Bone, Strangers in Paradise, Finder, etc. We still publish print issues of “Supernatural Law” (the latest, #45, published in July featured Troma’s Toxic Avenger and Lloyd Kaufman), although issues are becoming farther apart, because of all the reasons everyone’s already cited. The series now has a pretty good following online at www.supernaturallaw.com , where Batton has done both revised versions of older stories and brand-new stuff. Right now there’s a new story unfolding, having to do with werewolf rights. I’m wondering of “Supernatural Law” is now the longest-running self-published print comic book series . . .

More info on the history of the series at www.exhibitapress.com

]]> by: Olivier E. http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724745 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:13:54 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724745 I think it's just because marvel and DC publish nowadays more comics than they did the years before, and due to licensed properties at Dynamite, Dark Horse and IDW, that's probably the only reason why the sales have gone up in the lower top 300 ranks. I think it’s just because marvel and DC publish nowadays more comics than they did the years before, and due to licensed properties at Dynamite, Dark Horse and IDW, that’s probably the only reason why the sales have gone up in the lower top 300 ranks.

]]> by: gene phillips http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724735 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:11:03 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724735 Heidi sez: '“Alternative” is code for not crap.' Ah, Lance Tooks is mainstream, then. Heidi sez:

‘“Alternative” is code for not crap.’

Ah, Lance Tooks is mainstream, then.

]]> by: Tom Spurgeon http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724732 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:08:59 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724732 They're all rough designations. I imagine that unless someone is spoiling for a fight they accept that people use rough designations all the time and don't feel the desire to pick at the edges. The general intent tends to be pretty clear. I don't know of anyone that uses alternative as code for "not crap," although I guess a really staunch advocate for those kinds of comics or the publishers affiliated with them might. I've read plenty of crappy alternative comic books. I've read plenty of great mainstream comic books. I imagine most people follow Dirk's categories not by accepting he's right with every designation but by accepting he's mostly right and that sometimes that's just about impossible. I'm sure he know that some comics news subjects are difficult to categorize. In my experience, the appellations "art comics" and "alternative comics" both tend to indicate comics that don't fit easily into pulp adventure and fantasy genres, while alternative comics are sometimes further defined by the way they provide an alternative to dominant modes of North American comic books. Both have serve as a contrast to the designation "independent" which was used by a lot of people to indicate comics that explore pulp adventure and fantasy genres but in a way and by people not aligned with the American mainstream. So Spider-Man = mainstream, Casanova = independent, Tales Designed To Thrizzle = alternative. I don't think it's an uncomfortable or unenlightening way to approach those designations. They’re all rough designations. I imagine that unless someone is spoiling for a fight they accept that people use rough designations all the time and don’t feel the desire to pick at the edges. The general intent tends to be pretty clear.

I don’t know of anyone that uses alternative as code for “not crap,” although I guess a really staunch advocate for those kinds of comics or the publishers affiliated with them might. I’ve read plenty of crappy alternative comic books. I’ve read plenty of great mainstream comic books.

I imagine most people follow Dirk’s categories not by accepting he’s right with every designation but by accepting he’s mostly right and that sometimes that’s just about impossible. I’m sure he know that some comics news subjects are difficult to categorize.

In my experience, the appellations “art comics” and “alternative comics” both tend to indicate comics that don’t fit easily into pulp adventure and fantasy genres, while alternative comics are sometimes further defined by the way they provide an alternative to dominant modes of North American comic books.

Both have serve as a contrast to the designation “independent” which was used by a lot of people to indicate comics that explore pulp adventure and fantasy genres but in a way and by people not aligned with the American mainstream. So Spider-Man = mainstream, Casanova = independent, Tales Designed To Thrizzle = alternative. I don’t think it’s an uncomfortable or unenlightening way to approach those designations.

]]> by: Richard J. Marcej http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724727 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:04:59 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724727 "I would agree that fewer people are publishing alternative comic books, but also point to the rise of webcomics as a reason for that. The alternative comic book creators of fifteen years ago are the webcomic creators of today." That may be true, but IMO the reason for that is that many of the cartoonists and creators who WOULD have published single issue comics have had it with being shut out of most comic shops and most specifically Diamond. They've quit "banging their heads against the wall" and have chucked the archaic concept of single issues and have gone straight thru to that of GN's and the web. Leaving the bulk of shops that didn't want them in the first place to stock nearly nothing but mainstream comics. “I would agree that fewer people are publishing alternative comic books, but also point to the rise of webcomics as a reason for that. The alternative comic book creators of fifteen years ago are the webcomic creators of today.”

That may be true, but IMO the reason for that is that many of the cartoonists and creators who WOULD have published single issue comics have had it with being shut out of most comic shops and most specifically Diamond.

They’ve quit “banging their heads against the wall” and have chucked the archaic concept of single issues and have gone straight thru to that of GN’s and the web.

Leaving the bulk of shops that didn’t want them in the first place to stock nearly nothing but mainstream comics.

]]> by: The Beat http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724680 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:46:05 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724680 "Alternative" is code for not crap. Who says I don't like the smell of gasoline? You know, Dirk divides his comics links into "Art Comics, " Pop Comics" and "Manga"...which somehow assumes that manga doesn't also fall into the divisions of art and pop. But anyway... “Alternative” is code for not crap.

Who says I don’t like the smell of gasoline?

You know, Dirk divides his comics links into “Art Comics, ” Pop Comics” and “Manga”…which somehow assumes that manga doesn’t also fall into the divisions of art and pop. But anyway…

]]> by: snoid http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724646 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:26:46 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724646 Mark, this is an alternative comic; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yummy_Fur_(comic) This is not; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spawn_(comics) Mark, this is an alternative comic;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yummy_Fur_(comic)

This is not;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spawn_(comics)

]]> by: gene phillips http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724632 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:20:25 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724632 Mark, "Mainstream" means extroverted and readerly; "alternative" means introverted and writerly. No help at all, is it? Mark,
“Mainstream” means extroverted and readerly; “alternative” means introverted and writerly.

No help at all, is it?

]]> by: Mark Engblom http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724624 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:08:46 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724624 What's the definition for "alternative comic" anyway? Is it "everything not Marvel or DC" or something more aethetically or philosophically specific? What’s the definition for “alternative comic” anyway? Is it “everything not Marvel or DC” or something more aethetically or philosophically specific?

]]> by: Sandy http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724605 Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:51:26 +0000 http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2008/12/15/the-questions-we-face/#comment-2724605 You wrote "nobody publishes alternative comic books any more. Everybody publishes alternative graphic novels . . . ." I would agree that fewer people are publishing alternative comic books, but also point to the rise of webcomics as a reason for that. The alternative comic book creators of fifteen years ago are the webcomic creators of today. You wrote “nobody publishes alternative comic books any more. Everybody publishes alternative graphic novels . . . .” I would agree that fewer people are publishing alternative comic books, but also point to the rise of webcomics as a reason for that. The alternative comic book creators of fifteen years ago are the webcomic creators of today.

]]>