Megan Fox: “Wonder Woman is lame.”
Although anxious fanboys are always dreaming up new superheroines for comely Megan Fox to star as, it seems that Wonder Woman won’t be one of them, no matter how much Fox is rumored to be in the running for the long gestating film. She boldly told the Times Online:
“Wonder Woman is a lame superhero,” she says, clearly unfazed at the thought of ruling herself out of a potentially career-making franchise. “She flies around in her invisible jet and her weaponry is a lasso that makes you tell the truth. I just don’t get it. Somebody has a big challenge on their hands whoever takes that role but I don’t want to do it.”
Sob. Say it ain’t so, Megan. Luckily, comic book media will have plenty to keep ourselves busy with Fox’s role in the upcoming JONAH HEX movie and the starring role in a planned FATHOM film.
05/29/09 at 10:37 am
Yeah, and a guy dressed up as a bat is a lame idea, too. Puh-leez, Ms. Fox I thought actors were supposed to have imagination, not just look pretty.
05/29/09 at 10:46 am
The entire comics industry will now boycott Ms Fox by no longer make use of her assets for pornoface swipe.
05/29/09 at 10:49 am
I’m sorry, but Megan’s right. It’s a character that just won’t translate to screen. It’s a bad enough concept on paper. She’s a smart cookie!
05/29/09 at 10:50 am
Although Fox is… well, a fox, I’d rather see Catherine Zeta Jones play Wonder Woman. (my favorite DC hero, btw) She has a seasoned beauty and a range, which I’ve always believed WW to have.
05/29/09 at 11:01 am
I don’t see why Wonder Woman, in the proper hands, can’t translate to the screen any more than a guy dressed as a Spider. Or a relaunch of a guy dressed as a bat. It’s all in the execution. The Punisher translates easy to the screen, too… but look what happened to that film.
Megan Fox can be in my Bomb Queen movie if she wants.
05/29/09 at 11:04 am
Colleen said:
“The entire comics industry will now boycott Ms Fox by no longer make use of her assets for pornoface swipe.”
Or will they make even more use of her now, particularly in WW costumes, knowing that she *really* doesn’t approve?
05/29/09 at 11:13 am
They should soft launch Wonder Woman through a Batman film where she crashes her invisible jet into Wayne Manor and then scrambles over the wreckage, pulls Bruce Wayne out of his Bat-Hole and viciously beats the crap out of him for like twenty minutes of film time.
05/29/09 at 11:33 am
LOL! Gene wins.
No wait, TOM wins! Beautiful, man!
05/29/09 at 11:36 am
Megan Fox is a smart cookie? Oh man King, thanks I needed a good laugh!
This comment made by Ms. Fox is sadly representative of what most of the non-comic reading public comic thinks of Wonder Woman. While I don’t think most people think she’s “lame” per se, they do seem to have a very limited view of who Diana is as a character. This situation isn’t helped by the fact that DC/Warner Bros. continues to market Wonder Woman to the kitsch crowd rather than to people interested in comics as literature. The sooner this is fixed the sooner Diana will start to earn more respect from the general public.
And for the record, Cathy Z. Jones is also disinterested in in playing Diana for pretty much the same reasons as Ms. Fox. Can we work on fixing the public perception PLEASE, DC?
05/29/09 at 11:37 am
I know, I would so totally watch that movie…and then Batman could make a triumphal comeback, Ricky Steamboat Style, and when Wonder Woman tried to come off the top rope…well…it would end in disaster, like always, Ric Flair style.
05/29/09 at 11:47 am
In Fox’s defense, the actress is clearly aware of the differences between substantial roles and fluff:
I don’t see the potential substance in a Wonder Woman role. The costume is silly, and the background doesn’t lend itself to any sort of dramatic development. An actress could only hope to come out of the movie undamaged.
SRS
05/29/09 at 12:02 pm
Although I generally prefer Wonder Tot, I think Wonder Woman’s a great character and all the writers who have been paid money and haven’t been able to come up with a way to make a super ass-kicking bombshell warrior goddess work on screen for 120 minutes all because of some dopey-ass television show starring Lyle Waggoner from 95 years ago should turn in their laptops.
I am going to write a unauthorized Wonder Woman screenplay and run it on my site and it is going to rule.
(Heidi: No, Batman does the job. Clean.)
05/29/09 at 12:11 pm
“I’m smart and really want to do something substatia–hey look, everyone, I’m pulling off my underpants!”
05/29/09 at 12:28 pm
That lingerie modeling pose is pretty standard stuff for Maxim, FHM, and other men’s magazines. My guess is that courting the favor of such magazines helps the actresses more than it hurts them.
SRS
05/29/09 at 12:28 pm
I don’t believe she meant a word of it. It was temporary insanity wrought by hunger. Megan, go eat something before your hips snap off!
When did jutting bones go from “Donate now to end the famine” to “Smokin’ hot Maxim cover girl”?
05/29/09 at 12:34 pm
It would be good for her to play Wonder Woman, since the bracelets would cover up that amazingly horrible tattoo of hers.
As always, my suggestions for WW: Aishwarya Rai or Morena Baccarin.
05/29/09 at 12:39 pm
Steven says, “I don’t see the potential substance in a Wonder Woman role. The costume is silly, and the background doesn’t lend itself to any sort of dramatic development”
Just window dressing. ALL costumes change on film. Batman has not hurt Christian Bale one bit, Iron Man boosted Downey, et. In the right hands any character can be executed well. As Spurgeon implies people need to get over the old TV series / costume, just as they improved the old campy Batman TV series, Star Trek series, whatever. Where the hell are the new young writers with ideas today?
What the film needs is not a hot looking star, but a talented writer-director with a goal to launch WW for a new generation.
05/29/09 at 12:46 pm
Wow. Just when I thought I didn’t like her already, she says something stupid again. I remember another big turn off was when she said she didn’t cook save for microwave pizza or something. Sure she’s pleasing to the eye, but I don’t see anything appealing under that surface.
05/29/09 at 1:02 pm
Moviemakers could tinker with the character concept, to attract a wider audience, but her Amazonian background is, IMO, an insurmountable problem. Changing that eliminates the basis for the character, and keeping that forces the writer to go with a Super Friends approach.
SRS
05/29/09 at 1:06 pm
Not to be overly catty, but Ms. Fox is unconvincing even as the college-age love interest of the dude in TRANSFORMERS. She doesn’t want the role, great. Pretty sure she couldn’t lift that weight.
05/29/09 at 1:06 pm
Heidi–
Ms. Fox is CLEARLY trying to sell the virtues of the hair removing product, Nair.
As for WW? I’d cast Jill Wagner.
05/29/09 at 1:13 pm
Won’t someone think of the teddy bears?
Why did she gut that toy?
OK, I’m outie, my editor’s going to catch me goofing off any minute now…
05/29/09 at 1:26 pm
Clearly Ms. Fox has no understanding of the character whatsoever. Diana is so much more and can hold her own with Superman or Batman. It is a shame that before opening her mouth Ms. Fox is not capable of actually reading and researching. Oh wait does she even know how to read. Her only talents to date have been her ability to flaunt her assests. Yes she does so much for the image of women. Why whould she want to play a woman who actually elevates the role of women in society. Her loss womankinds gain.
05/29/09 at 1:29 pm
Tom S said:
“They should soft launch Wonder Woman through a Batman film where she crashes her invisible jet into Wayne Manor and then scrambles over the wreckage, pulls Bruce Wayne out of his Bat-Hole and viciously beats the crap out of him for like twenty minutes of film time.”
This would only work for me if for the whole time he’s repeating, “I’m the goddamn Batman.”
05/29/09 at 1:30 pm
No actress could have made that Transformers role believable, Matt.
05/29/09 at 1:37 pm
her Amazonian background is…
…a CGI element in the first and final shot of the movie, and a monologue at the end of the first act.
I mean, if you want it to. Be.
Such.
(honestly, they might as well say screw it, and make a modernised film of the TV series. It’s not like there was anything inherently wrong in the setup. And cast Tittybangbang’s Lucy Montgomery.)
//\Oo/\\
05/29/09 at 1:53 pm
Here’s the perfect Aishwarya Rai, and the beautiful Morena Baccarin.
SRS
05/29/09 at 3:15 pm
I’d give a thumbs up to Aishwarya Rai as Wonder Woman, but unfortunately I think that the lovely Ms. Baccarin is too short for the role (and the pictures of Ms. Baccarin in Mr. Stahl’s link look to be photoshopped fakes, sorry).
I really think that Gina Torres would make a great Wonder Woman, but I can’t imagine the fan base accepting her.
05/29/09 at 3:15 pm
OK, I don’t think Megan Fox is a great talent any more than anyone else does, but can we please refrain from body-snarking her? That’s lame, Chris.
Colleen, I was wondering what she was doing to that poor teddy bear, too! She seems to have disemboweled it and is stuffing its entrails into her underwear. If she has some repressed aggression issues and that’s her only outlet for them, maybe she needs Wonder Woman more than she thinks!
Honestly, I think this points to a PR problem for Diana. We get annoyed with people when they’re ignorant about comics, but they’re never this clueless about Superman or Batman because they’ve always been kept up as brands, changing with the times so that they don’t slip into lame-itude. Why hasn’t it been done for Wonder Woman?
05/29/09 at 3:16 pm
Catherine Bell, formerly of JAG. But some think she is beyond her peaks. Oops, I mean “peak”.
05/29/09 at 3:25 pm
I think the problem is that most of the capes and cowls crowd thinks WW is lame too. Her book doesn’t sell all that well and the normal question is, “Why?” Fans usually point to Rucka’s run as good and I think Simone is doing good work too, but they still don’t sell like Superman, Spider-man or Batman. Point being, if the comics crowd thinks she’s lame, what hope does she have in front of the mundies?
05/29/09 at 3:32 pm
Did someone here just say that it would NOT be possible to make a Wonder Woman movie?!!?!???! O.o
05/29/09 at 3:46 pm
What is there specifically about Wonder Woman, and I mean specific in the character concept, that makes her a good character? The fact that her history is a mess indicates that writers over the years haven’t identified two or three solid aspects to base stories on. Ask a man in the street what an Amazon is, and he’d probably say, “A man-hater and, uh, a lesbian, I think.” Having the generic aspects of a superhero doesn’t make Wonder Woman a good character.
SRS
05/29/09 at 4:01 pm
she talks, we listen, even if it b.s. post #34…lol.
05/29/09 at 4:14 pm
“Although Fox is… well, a fox, I’d rather see Catherine Zeta Jones play Wonder Woman. (my favorite DC hero, btw) She has a seasoned beauty and a range, which I’ve always believed WW to have. ”
Maybe like in the 90s she would have been good.
05/29/09 at 4:33 pm
the smart move now would be for DC to ship full runs of the perez/rucka/simone WW stories to fox’s agent.
ooh look! airborne bacon!
05/29/09 at 4:46 pm
Steven says “That lingerie modeling pose is pretty standard stuff for Maxim, FHM, and other men’s magazines. My guess is that courting the favor of such magazines helps the actresses more than it hurts them.”
How does this pose help an actress, unless they could really care less for their craft. Sure she can shovel a bunch of crap about wanting to be taken seriously, first she needs to learn to act. Which in my minds eye, she hasn’t. She exploits herself for roles in summer blockbusters.
Onto Wonder Woman, we could argue all day about whether or not she’s a viable character to carry a movie, but is there currently a female character that can carry a top twently solo-book? Off the top of my head I can only think of three books featuring a leading female role (with two this way come summer). And out of all of them Power Girl, Ms. Marvel, and Wonder Woman. Guess which one will still be in a book ten years from now. I don’t say this to be snarky, but it is alarming.
05/29/09 at 4:49 pm
Too add to my previous comment, the line about female headlined books was pertaining to mainstream superhero fair, not indie fare like Love & Rockets.
05/29/09 at 4:53 pm
“And out of all of them Power Girl, Ms. Marvel, and Wonder Woman. Guess which one will still be in a book ten years from now.”
…or maybe there will be more in the future. You haven’t read “The Temp” yet. Everything may change once that story hits the mainstream.
Anyway, after doing a search on Wonder Woman casting, I have concluded that Christian Bale should play the role.
05/29/09 at 5:17 pm
“What is there specifically about Wonder Woman, and I mean specific in the character concept, that makes her a good character?”
I always liked Wonder Woman as a character because she’s a paragon of femininity, but a femininity that seems to include as a core principle copious amounts of doled-out ass-beatings.
05/29/09 at 5:30 pm
Also, there’s already been a great Wonder Woman on film — Anita Mui!
05/29/09 at 5:40 pm
In all seriousness, having WW start out kicking Batman’s ass around the screen for the first half of a movie isn’t the worst idea in the world. It might even be a pretty good one.
And then they team up to take Killer Croc and the Cheetah DOWN.
05/29/09 at 5:59 pm
It makes professional wrestling sense, anyway. Wonder Woman could use the rub, and Batman is perpetually over. It’d be a nice twist in terms of pre-publicity, too: it’s not a character you’d assume to see in a Batman flick. It’s going to be difficult to match even 10 percent of the pre-interest in that last Batman film.
I think you could probably be instructed in how to build a film around Wonder Woman the way the new Star Trek is built around Captain Kirk, too. Because like Kirk she’s not really a conflicted character, and trying to make her one would probably result in a re-run of the hi-larity that was moody, stalky Superman.
05/29/09 at 6:00 pm
Is Cheetah really her arch-enemy? Yikes. Never mind.
05/29/09 at 6:11 pm
“What is there specifically about Wonder Woman, and I mean specific in the character concept, that makes her a good character? The fact that her history is a mess indicates that writers over the years haven’t identified two or three solid aspects to base stories on. Ask a man in the street what an Amazon is, and he’d probably say, “A man-hater and, uh, a lesbian, I think.” Having the generic aspects of a superhero doesn’t make Wonder Woman a good character.”
First, maybe you walk down different streets, but if you asked most anyone what an Amazon is they’d probably think you meant the website. Or the jungle. I’m not sure they’d immediately go to “man-hater”. And beyond that, what would the average person on the street say if you asked them what a superhero was? Someone in a cape and tights. At least before Dark Knight.
Having the generic aspects of a hero does make her a good character on which to base a film or story, because they’re ALL based on generic hero archetypes. From Batman to Superman to Iron Man. And all of the ones that have been successful have been updated for current audiences who are unfamiliar with the characters AND those who are. Because we all generically understand and relate to those archetypes. That’s why they’re archetypes.
Just because you don’t find the character interesting doesn’t mean she isn’t, you know. And it’s kind of confrontational to demand that people give you reasons they believe she is, since that’s going to be a bit subjective and not “provable” in any objective sense. And frankly, the fact that some writers haven’t “gotten” her doesn’t mean it’s the character. Others have. And if we’re going to get into convoluted back stories there’s not a character in any of these universes who doesn’t suffer from that. Period.
What you seem to be saying is that because she’s a female character that hasn’t always been handled well, and who some writers have found difficult, she doesn’t deserve better, can’t have a better story, in fact has NO story, and doesn’t have the potential to be in a successful movie. I emphatically disagree. Mainly because I think we’ve seen how well someone like Batman, who started as campy as they come with an entirely different back story, ended up in an even weirder place via Burton and Schumacher, could be successfully relaunched with the right time and care put into it. Or take Iron Man (who on paper bores me to tears) a relatively obscure superhero to anyone who doesn’t read comics or listen to Metal, also successfully re-launched by simplifying both the story and the character into an identifiable type.
As for Wonder Woman, I find her compelling because she’s from a different culture, a matriarchy, which has a very different power structure than our own. That’s an interesting background to me. She stands for justice and reason, many of the things Superman stands for, as well as nobility and strength. And literally truth, with that lasso. And she stands for those things as a woman, who rescues herself, and is the hero of her own stories…rather than the sidekick or “girl” to a male lead.
But she also, in more current works, has taken on a darker tone. Capable of making difficult, often shocking decisions, and she is not shy of violence. I see a lot of similarities between her and Xena (including the Greek Gods angle), which was a very popular show, and I could something similar being done with that character. I mean, redemption from a dark past isn’t exactly something only male characters should get.
Do I think that because she’s a female character it’s more likely that she wouldn’t be handled well on film? Yes, unfortunately. See both Elektra and Catwoman. Neither of those characters should have been treated like that, and it was quality of the stories and not the characters themselves that were the problem.
Frankly, the only Wonder Woman movie I’d want to see is one written by someone who clearly gets her and has a history of writing female characters as people. Like Whedon or Brian K. Vaughan. I agree that a Wonder Woman movie has every potential to be bad if it’s not handled well. Just like Batman wasn’t handled well at one point, or Superman, etc.
But there are ample examples of female characters like her doing well. Just not recently, because we keep screwing it up. But there are ones that work…Ripley, Buffy, Xena, Selene, The Bride etc. I just don’t think there’s anything about Wonder Woman that makes her less viable a character than Batman or Superman, other than our biases.
05/29/09 at 6:13 pm
Didn’t the new Star Trek film just rock? You’re right, Tom. I’d love to see a non-conflicted Wonder Woman film. I’d love to see Wonder Woman Vs. Captain Kirk for that matter.
05/29/09 at 7:22 pm
She would have been a terrible choice for that role anyway.
05/29/09 at 7:25 pm
Mariah: wow. I keep hoping that they could remake Catwoman & just pretend that first one didn’t happen..you know, like they did w/ the Hulk.
I can’t possibly be THAT eloquent, but in short I agree that a Wonder Woman movie is possible. Ifyou’d have used the 60’s 70’s Batman TV show or comics as proof that eventually it’d be this huge movie franchise, I’d have laughed at you. But Dark Knight happened, & Batman got gritty..most superheros then became more gritty too..& now they all have movies. Or a lot of ‘em do. Wonder Woman would be trickier to apply the Dark Knight effect to.
The backstory of Wonder Woman, the Amazon stuff: I don’t think that’s insurmountable. What about 300? If you had a training sequence of Amazons fighting each other in slo-mo, that wouldn’t get some attention? Like the Fortress of Solitude was an easy concept? Though I guess Mariah already made that point handily too.
If the right story could be put together, her outfit/the jet/etc would likely be updated for a movie, & Diane Price & Steve Trevor would likely be put into a more modern world.
..but she sure can’t be played by Megan Fox. I won’t body-bash, but WW is an Amazon Princess, & to me, anyhow, that means a little stronger, a tiny bit older, & curvier. She’d need to look like she could kick some rump. I heard Beyoncé wanted to play her.
Hey, I just remembered this from a letters column from a WW issue I read back then..WW’s earrings help her hear conversations far away & breathe underwater.
05/29/09 at 8:31 pm
Steve and Diana compliment each other - or at least that’s what I saw in the first series of the TV show - both as individuals and as stand-ins for the broader society. Both good people, both finding something they’ve missed (or didn’t know they missed, to light that bulb, as well) in each other.
And that’s the thing - Paradise Island isn’t a matriarchy, it’s a gynocracy. Completely static, utterly rarified. It’s like butterflies under glass - beautiful, great examples of the mental and physical potential of the human race, but missing something. Like the Kent farm - or more correctly, Krypton? - it’s only really a starting point. A thing to leave behind. An idyll, rather than an ideal? HE SAID WITH SOME DISCOMFORT.
Is Wonder Woman a redemptive superhero? As opposed to the restrictive heroism of Batman et al.? Is there a sense that she rehabilitates as much as she incarcerates? I dunno. The TV show laid it on a bit thick with the “how could you treat another woman that way?” jazz, but the thought of Wonder Woman as a well-meaning naif - at least to begin with - is at least one way into the heart of the character.
Or something.
Or somewhat.
//\Oo/\\
05/29/09 at 8:40 pm
Oh, god, yes. Forgot: BBC/HBO’s ROME.
THAT’s how you do all that Old Gods stuff. Keep it at a deep damn distance.
(and the three-cent word I forgot to use above? “Anandrous.”
“Anandrous.”
“Anandrous Gynocracy.”
Not a Warren Ellis character.)
//\Oo/\\
05/29/09 at 8:56 pm
Eva: Oh, thanks. I can’t believe I wrote a comment that long. It’s like a novel. :}
And you’re right. I don’t think every character needs The Dark Knight treatment as you say, and with WW there are lots of choices. And the Amazon thing isn’t, to me, any trickier than trying to explain, say, Wolverin’s origins. It’s about time and effort, I think. Caring enough about the character not to do something trite or stereotypical. Which is sadly what often happens with female characters…because I think they’re already viewed as “other”. Especially in the hero genre, I find, Even though we have great examples, people still seem to ignore and/or dismiss them. And I think many writers freeze up when it comes to them, like they’re aliens who somehow want strange and vague things no one understands. Which is obviously not true.
I mean, Catwoman is a great example of some of the most badly botched pseudo-feminism I’ve ever seen. Horrendous. And it’s basically the lithmus test for precisely how not to EVER handle a character, female or otherwise. So I guess at least we know what not to do.
Matthew: I think those are good questions to ask. I don’t know if she is redemptive, really, but it’s worth asking. What are her goals. What does she represent. What are the conflicts that creates for her and the people around her. The character’s had a pretty long run and despite not being as popular as Bats or Supes, she’s still an icon and part of the cultural discussion. Asking those kinds of character questions is as relevant for her as they are for Bats or Supes or Iron Man.
05/29/09 at 9:01 pm
Matthew: On the Greek Gods thing, I think like most story elements, it depends on the context and the story. I agree that keeping it at a distance is appropriate for many stories, but it might not be for all.
I think of it as similar to fantasy genre. It’s like saying you can’t ever have creatures or dragons. Sure you can, depending on the story and the use.
Would it be right for WW? No idea. I’d have to read the script.
05/29/09 at 10:21 pm
That doesn’t make much sense if you’re talking about writing a story that can interest adults, and doesn’t just treat a superhero as a special effects generator, and doesn’t assume that pure formula fiction which relies on things such as refusing to kill the evil villain, or using her last ounce of strength to defeat the menace, is entertaining.
Wonder Woman’s theme can be stated as “An Amazon fighting evil in the world of Man.” That theme doesn’t lend itself to stories. It actually encourages stories with sexist or sexual aspects, because that’s where the basic conflict lies. If she fights some impersonal menace, the story is generic and makes her background irrelevant. If her background is explored, the conflict with Greek mythology (such as killing male infants) has to be explained, and the background can easily look silly, along with equipment such as the lasso and jet.
There could be stories that have her overcoming sexist assumptions about her abilities, but such an approach would quickly become tiresome. The best stories might have her saving women from attempted rape, domestic violence, or other problems, but that doesn’t require superpowers.
What I’m looking for are examples of stories that treat her as a literary character and relate directly to her theme. No story which relies on the generic aspects of superheroes for its impact will satisfy that requirement, and people aren’t needed to write such stories. They could be written by computer programs. Artists are supposed to emphasize their creativity and inventiveness.
SRS
05/29/09 at 10:54 pm
That doesn’t make much sense if you’re talking about writing a story that can interest adults….
I don’t see why that is true. Did Batman Begins interest adults? It relied on archetypes. From your comment, I’m interpreting that you’re defining “archetypical” as “generic,” but that’s not really what it means. I don’t think “literary” stories necessarily exclude archetypes. Archetypes can be used in stories that are complex — structurally, thematically, and emotionally. At their core, however, are types of characters and scenarios that has lasted a couple of millennia because, for some reason, they appeal to us on a deep level.
Wonder Woman, whatever her origins as a fictional character, seems to me to be an example of a Strange in a Strange Land sort of story. She is a woman used to a woman’s world entering a man’s world, but stories about her needn’t be overtly sex/gender-themed just because of that. he’s an outsider confronting a different culture, sometimes resisting it, sometimes having to question her own cultural assumptions. You’ve limited the character and the stories that could be written about her by limiting her scope, while I see it as something much more universal. Specific stories of universal themes are often what make good stories.
05/29/09 at 11:04 pm
Steven, it’s just stories, man. They don’t *have* to do anything other than make something people want to go see on a movie screen. They just have to entertain for 90 minutes enough that people want to pay for it. It’s not easy, but it’s a much different standard than fuming at people until they come up with something unique and inarguably groundbreaking.
A couple of the posts on this thread talk about Paradise Island like it’s a real place that needs to be represented based on that reality instead of a fictional construct with limitless possibilities for use.
Creating fictional movies in your head is a pretty limited exercise, if only because the elements that make a hit film are kind of all over the place, and only have a little to do with the strength of the concept. Ditto advance reviewing fictional movies that exist in your head to give them a thumbs down.
On a certain level, you just never know. It’s not like Dragon Ball sucks now. They just made a crappy movie. It’s not like the X-Men are a better movie concept than the Fantastic Four. Not really. I would rather engulf my own head in flame than see Ghost Rider again, but if I were drafting properties in 1994 for a game of Fantasy Franchising the Skeleton on a Motorcycle would have been in my top ten ahead of the Day-Walking Vampire.
05/29/09 at 11:47 pm
Mariah argued that basing stories on the generic aspects of superheroes was fine, and that’s what I was responding to. Practically all fiction makes use of archetypes, but writing stories that feature simplistic archetypes, such as the megalomaniacal villain who wants to take over the world, or the hero who places his responsibility to use his power to do good over everything else, avoids love interests because the relationships will conflict with their safety and that overriding responsibility, etc., is just a waste of time. There’s no practical difference between using simple archetypes and using “generic” characters in stories.
It’s possible to write superhero characters as SF/fantasy characters, construct rationales for their powers which make sense and develop them. That’s what Englehart did in the ’70s, and he’s still renowned for his work with the Vision and Scarlet Witch (a union of opposites) and Dr. Strange (a sorcerer who worked to understand and deal with a multi-dimensional reality). The “Celestial Madonna” AVENGERS storyline was SF; Thomas’s “Kree-Skrull War” storyline had SF elements.
Formula fiction makes heavy use of archetypes (see, e.g., this), but formula fiction, even if it’s not immediately dismissed as junk, eventually becomes uninteresting after a reader knows the formula(s) a given writer uses.
I’m still waiting for examples of Wonder Woman storylines that relate to her theme in a literary fashion.
I won’t argue that a Wonder Woman movie couldn’t possibly be made which entertained some types of viewers, but I’d expect the movie’s plot and interpretation of the heroine to be simple, if not simplistic. My main concern is having the virtues of the comic book character identified.
SRS
05/29/09 at 11:52 pm
I’d like an older more seasoned woman to play the real warrior princess. Such as Cate Blanchett. If I heard Blanchett was signed on to play WW or Hyppolita I’d have to change pants.
http://images.allmoviephoto.com/2007_Elizabeth:_The_Golden_Age/2007_elizabeth_the_golden_age_004.jpg
05/30/09 at 12:00 am
Did no one else see that direct to DVD animated Wonder Woman movie? That thing kicked ass!
05/30/09 at 12:01 am
Johnny Depp could pull it off.
05/30/09 at 12:02 am
I think it’s pretty funny that there’s 57 responses to the news that some actress has said that she doesn’t want to star in a movie that no one’s making anyway.
05/30/09 at 12:58 am
61 now.
And Cheetah was the only Wonder Woman adversary I could remember. They fought against each other in SUPER-FRIENDS, right?
05/30/09 at 1:27 am
Well, aside from comments on Fox, the actress’s dismissal of Wonder Woman as “lame” touches a sore point creators and fans have, who are aware that the characters they’re working with or love can be hard to write for adults, even if editors were to give them the freedom to do so.
SRS
05/30/09 at 7:25 am
Here’s my pitch… We open on a mysterious gathering in the catacombs of Naples… Ancient mysteries are enacted… Beasts terrorize a metropolis… Paradise is threatened, stranger comes to town. Her motives are questioned, is she in cahoots with the beasts? She vanquishes the threat, earns a neutral acceptance from the community, then rides off into the sunset. Add a little backstory, avoid presenting most of the origin. Trevor is government investigator trying to uncover WW mystery. Wary but eventually accepting.
It’s the American Monomyth with a bit of the Immigrant Experience. One recurring subvillain can be a media blowhard who is very critical of WW. Avoid using the swimsuit uniform.
05/30/09 at 5:02 pm
Let’s just use the Emma Peel WW instead of the usual one.
But who would play I-Ching?
05/30/09 at 6:23 pm
Steven said:
“I’m still waiting for examples of Wonder Woman storylines that relate to her theme in a literary fashion.”
I’m not clear on what you mean by “literary fashion,” as you seem to be using it to mean nothing more than stories that you personally like.
Is Baum’s WIZARD OF OZ literary, in its evocation of fantastic whimsy? Some of the early Marston stories are equally whimsical and inventive.
Is Engleharts’ DOCTOR STRANGE literary because it tosses around magical concepts? The WW origin opposes “love” and “war” as abstract qualities.
And I like a lot of Englehart’s AVENGERS, but it’s very uneven, to say nothing of being very badly drawn in many issues. Don Heck was still capable of doing good work, but by that time group books weren’t his thing any more. The Perez WW is also uneven, but probably has as many strong moments plus usually looking great artwise.
05/30/09 at 11:30 pm
Well, thank goodness. I’m sure she has decent “assets,” and possibly even real acting chops (or at least, she wants to find out if she has ‘em), but I wasn’t looking forward to “Wonder Waif” rather than “Wonder Woman.” Of course, this is Hollywood, so the way they do things there, I’m sure that they’ll end up casting Dakota Fanning… They’ll call it “Paradise Island” and have her have to deal with the other cruel, cruel Amazons in Amazon High School… blech.
05/31/09 at 7:57 am
I would totally watch that movie.
06/1/09 at 8:41 am
Here ya go, Tom! Enjoy!
06/1/09 at 10:11 am
Hey, I thought people liked Mean Girls, although I imagine Ms. Lohan’s career/life Vinko Bogataj makes watching that a weird experience now.
I bet they’d film a Wonder Woman movie if they knew it was going to make back 17X its budget.
06/1/09 at 10:15 am
Or even 7X, if you’re better at math than I am…
06/1/09 at 11:11 am
Quite seriously, a Wonder Woman film with the character played by a man could be an interesting project in the right hands.
06/1/09 at 12:50 pm
Part of the reason why Wonder Woman is a problematic character might be that she wasn’t designed to work as a character, in a purely storytelling sense. The lasso has been regarded as a bondage & discipline accessory; the belt WW wore on the TV show had (unintentionally, I suppose) a sexual aspect — take away the belt, take away her strength; and the Wonder Woman-Steve Trevor/Steve Trevor-Diana Prince role reversals had domination/submission elements. The existence of Paradise Island as a females-only society in the real world is problematic; I see that the island‘s society has been virtually destroyed in the WONDER WOMAN comic book series.
The fetish elements in Marston’s WONDER WOMAN are pretty obvious. I don’t fault people for trying to eliminate such elements from the character concept, but I don’t think that’s possible without eliminating the Amazonian element completely. If that were done — what would be left?
SRS
06/1/09 at 12:53 pm
A no longer tied up woman? That’s many people’s favorite kind!
06/1/09 at 1:16 pm
Yes, but then, someone would have to supply a background to match the visual concept and justify the powers. Superman was an alien. I suppose that a non-Amazon Wonder Woman could be tied to Gaia, and exist as a primal woman, naturally powerful and unburdened by misconceptions and prejudices.
SRS
06/1/09 at 3:07 pm
Dude, it’s words on paper and people playing make believe while people point cameras and lights at them. She can be anything. She could simply be the best and the brightest of a secret society of women with a bitchin’ invisible plane, a rope that makes people tell the truth and bracelets that let her block bullets. If the film works, about 13 people will care that it didn’t adhere to some canon somewhere. No one has to do anything.
I don’t even know what “tied to Gaia” means, but it sounds kinky. And potentially mega-stupid. And not necessary.
06/1/09 at 6:32 pm
Amen to that!
I’d love to see a Wonder Woman movie. I’d also love to see a Catwoman movie … done right, this time.
06/2/09 at 9:52 am
You seem to be elevating any live-action movie that someone would care to make about Wonder Woman over the comic book series. I don’t see the point. Are the comic book stories so dull and unimaginative that they don’t enable a reader to visualize WW doing (fill in the blank)?
I can’t imagine WW doing anything in a movie that would alter the character concept, much less transform it. There would probably be people who’d point out that the bracelets are useless against lead shot, or simultaneous shots from two or more directions.
The point of suggesting that WW be based on creation by Gaia is that if a character concept doesn’t work, for some reason, it can be fixed. A mythological background that eliminated the adverse relationship with men, but kept them at a distance, would enable WW to represent women generally and have powers as well.
SRS
06/2/09 at 3:24 pm
Sure Tom, but then… why bother even with the Wonder Woman title, if you are going to so change the character? All that will do, then, is simply piss off the fans who do care. Call her “Kick Ass Kate” or “The Girl from G.A.I.A.” or something else. Why even bother with the name, if youa re not going to really use the character and the story?
A comic book hero, or heroine, is more than just the sum of his or her gadgets…
06/2/09 at 5:40 pm
It’s not that you’re not using the story or the character, you’re just not using all of it as defined by a sometimes-goofy publishing history whose parameters include multiple complete universe reboots. The adapting agent gets to define what’s essential.
I personally prefer a Superman who was Superbaby, but the makers of Superman decided to skip that part of the character, damn them. I think Mary Jane Watson was so much better for coming third, not first. Sam Raimi and company disagreed with me. I like Wolverine with essentially no origin over Wolverine with Wolverine: Origin, but the filmmakers disagreed. I think that Guy Ritchie Sherlock Holmes looks mostly silly, and by changing a few proper nouns here and there could have been a film about a brand new character rather than a specific reading of the original source material. But he’s allowed to do it and more power to him if it works.
06/8/09 at 1:34 pm
I agree with her. WW is an absolute joke of a character who’s only following are Gays and transsexuals that are all on the DC comics message boards, and Hollywood Blvd. It’s a stupid character that has no media apeal, or mass appeal.
She’s a very smart woman, to turn this future turd of a movie down.
06/11/09 at 10:23 am
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06/11/09 at 10:27 am
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06/26/09 at 6:18 pm
It is obvious that Megan’s only exposure to the character is that of the old Superfriends cartoons on tv, which I admit is pretty lame; Remember the wonder twins? In any case I invite Megan to do some research on the character before signing her off, after all your talking about a woman who can hold her own against Supermans strength and match Batman’s witts. watch some of the Justice league cartoon episodes Megan, and that will give a much better idea of what this character is all about. I say Megan Fox as Wonder Woman and Catherine Zeta-Jones as her mother, Hippolyta; that would be awesome!!
10/19/09 at 11:59 pm
I really like your blog and i respect your work. Ill be a frequent visitor.